Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Reading Recommendations

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-13-2012, 09:21 AM   #1
orlok
Close to the Edit!
orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
orlok's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,797
Karma: 267994408
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis, Amazon Fire 8", Kindle 6"
Wool - First Shift: Legacy [Spoiler Alert!!!]

I have just finished First Shift: Legacy and found it excellent, and a step up from the previous installments in terms of the strength of Mr. Howey's writing, not that there was anything wrong with #1-5.

What I do have is a question on a plot point - the very end of the book, so please do not look at this if you are intending to read the book.

Spoiler:
Not that it's a surprise when the (nanobot?) bombs are dropped at the end of this installment - this has been presaged throughout the story, and anyway we know it has happened from the earlier books - but my question is this:

Why do you think the bombs were dropped on the USA? I could understand (in extremis) Senator Thurman arranging for them to be dropped on the countries he suspects are developing similar weaponry as a preemptive strike, but why hurry things along by killing of his own populace? Have I missed a vital plot point?
orlok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 09:25 AM   #2
andyh2000
Avid reader
andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
andyh2000's Avatar
 
Posts: 824
Karma: 6377682
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Device: Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 4 / Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by orlok View Post
I have just finished First Shift: Legacy and found it excellent, and a step up from the previous installments in terms of the strength of Mr. Howey's writing, not that there was anything wrong with #1-5.

What I do have is a question on a plot point - the very end of the book, so please do not look at this if you are intending to read the book.

Spoiler:
Not that it's a surprise when the (nanobot?) bombs are dropped at the end of this installment - this has been presaged throughout the story, and anyway we know it has happened from the earlier books - but my question is this:

Why do you think the bombs were dropped on the USA? I could understand (in extremis) Senator Thurman arranging for them to be dropped on the countries he suspects are developing similar weaponry as a preemptive strike, but why hurry things along by killing of his own populace? Have I missed a vital plot point?
Spoiler:
To give an excuse/reason to herd people into the silos and start their new society afresh with controllable populations. I took it that a certain group wanted the bomb to drop (so to speak) so they could remake society the way they wanted it.

Andrew
andyh2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 09:37 AM   #3
orlok
Close to the Edit!
orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
orlok's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,797
Karma: 267994408
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis, Amazon Fire 8", Kindle 6"
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyh2000 View Post
Spoiler:
To give an excuse/reason to herd people into the silos and start their new society afresh with controllable populations. I took it that a certain group wanted the bomb to drop (so to speak) so they could remake society the way they wanted it.

Andrew
Spoiler:
Thanks for the quick reply, Andrew. I sort of got that, but it seems like a monstrous way to encourage a few of the elite to save themselves, and I was wondering if there was more to it?

Thinking about your answer, it does better explain why most of the "original" silo populace are taking memory wiping pills, due to the huge guilt that goes way beyond wiping out an enemy.
orlok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 09:55 AM   #4
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,441
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Spoiler:
I think he (Thurman) saw no other option for his plan to succeed. The "nuclear waste containment facility" ruse wasn't going to hold up to scrutiny indefinitely—and those silos were never going to be voluntarily populated once that particular cat was out of the bag (if ever, for that matter).

Without the convention and the immediate, local threat, there would have been resistance—questions. And empty (at least partially) silos. They needed a "flood" to convince everyone to get on the "ark." Nothing else would have worked.

Besides... if a large contingent of the population were left outside the silos, they'd have destroyed the silos trying to get in once they figured out what was in store for them. It would have been too dangerous to Thurman's new "Order" to leave civilization intact outside of the "silos" for even a short period of time.

Just my two cents. The logic (however megalomaniacal and insidious) seemed consistent to me.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 08-13-2012 at 09:58 AM.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #5
orlok
Close to the Edit!
orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
orlok's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,797
Karma: 267994408
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis, Amazon Fire 8", Kindle 6"
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Spoiler:
I think he (Thurman) saw no other option for his plan to succeed. The "nuclear waste containment facility" ruse wasn't going to hold up to scrutiny indefinitely—and those silos were never going to be voluntarily populated once that particular cat was out of the bag (if ever, for that matter).

Without the convention and the immediate, local threat, there would have been resistance—questions. And empty (at least partially) silos. They needed a "flood" to convince everyone to get on the "ark." Nothing else would have worked.

Besides... if a large contingent of the population were left outside the silos, they'd have destroyed the silos trying to get in once they figured out what was in store for them. It would have been too dangerous to Thurman's new "Order" to leave civilization intact outside of the "silos" for even a short period of time.

Just my two cents. The logic (however megalomaniacal and insidious) seemed consistent to me.
Between Andrew and yourself, I'm convinced .
orlok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 11:45 AM   #6
andyh2000
Avid reader
andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
andyh2000's Avatar
 
Posts: 824
Karma: 6377682
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Device: Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 4 / Kindle Paperwhite
Just a comment on the book as a whole.
Spoiler:
There was something about reading this as an eBook that made it even more chilling for me. I knew the bombs were going to drop, but because I couldn't see how close to the end of the book I was I never knew if it was going to be this page, or this page, or... Every page I turned where it didn't happen just seemed to rachet up the tension. Excellent stuff.

Andrew
andyh2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 12:00 PM   #7
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,441
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyh2000 View Post
Just a comment on the book as a whole.
Spoiler:
There was something about reading this as an eBook that made it even more chilling for me. I knew the bombs were going to drop, but because I couldn't see how close to the end of the book I was I never knew if it was going to be this page, or this page, or... Every page I turned where it didn't happen just seemed to rachet up the tension. Excellent stuff.

Andrew
To be perfectly honest:
Spoiler:
What you're describing is something I've come to appreciate on the whole regarding ebooks. With physical books, simply the thickness of the remaining pages forces me to make assumptions about some things at various times. The fact that I can choose to remain relatively ignorant of how close to the end I am, is a huge bonus for me. The ending can truly "sneak up on me."
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 12:02 PM   #8
orlok
Close to the Edit!
orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
orlok's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,797
Karma: 267994408
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis, Amazon Fire 8", Kindle 6"
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyh2000 View Post
Just a comment on the book as a whole.
Spoiler:
There was something about reading this as an eBook that made it even more chilling for me. I knew the bombs were going to drop, but because I couldn't see how close to the end of the book I was I never knew if it was going to be this page, or this page, or... Every page I turned where it didn't happen just seemed to rachet up the tension. Excellent stuff.

Andrew
Yes, I do find the not knowing how far from the end of an ebook you are a bit disconcerting (I know there's the percentage, but sometimes the book finishes at around 95% or in some cases sooner). Quite a number of times I've had that "Oh, was that it?" moment.
orlok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 01:52 PM   #9
hughhowey
Enthusiast
hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.hughhowey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
hughhowey's Avatar
 
Posts: 49
Karma: 715854
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jupiter, FL
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Spoiler:
I think he (Thurman) saw no other option for his plan to succeed. The "nuclear waste containment facility" ruse wasn't going to hold up to scrutiny indefinitely—and those silos were never going to be voluntarily populated once that particular cat was out of the bag (if ever, for that matter).

Without the convention and the immediate, local threat, there would have been resistance—questions. And empty (at least partially) silos. They needed a "flood" to convince everyone to get on the "ark." Nothing else would have worked.

Besides... if a large contingent of the population were left outside the silos, they'd have destroyed the silos trying to get in once they figured out what was in store for them. It would have been too dangerous to Thurman's new "Order" to leave civilization intact outside of the "silos" for even a short period of time.

Just my two cents. The logic (however megalomaniacal and insidious) seemed consistent to me.
You nailed pretty much everything. All I can add is:

Spoiler:
There was another need that the bombs provided (which weren't necessarily dropped, mind you. They could have been ground based). In order for the medication to work, there needs to be a horrific trauma for them to act upon. To seal off memory of the former world, there had to be a cauterizing event that could allow new memories to form while the drugs worked on all that was old. Hence the name changes and everything designed to foster a new existence.

Without this, news of the old world and what took place would persist across generations, which would be tumultuous and cause dissension and uprisings. Donald thinks this to himself toward the end of the book, that the bombs were props and nothing more. The nanos were in the air for years prior to the convention. They were already in everyone's blood.

MEGA SPOILER: Donald may have feared that meeting Thurman in the nanochamber infected him with something. But maybe it *cleaned* him of something worse. And maybe everyone who survived at the convention had a similar meeting with someone, somewhere, before the convention.
hughhowey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 02:59 PM   #10
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,441
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughhowey View Post
You nailed pretty much everything.
Woah. I actually got something right for once?
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 06:02 PM   #11
orlok
Close to the Edit!
orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.orlok ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
orlok's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,797
Karma: 267994408
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis, Amazon Fire 8", Kindle 6"
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughhowey View Post
You nailed pretty much everything. All I can add is:

Spoiler:
There was another need that the bombs provided (which weren't necessarily dropped, mind you. They could have been ground based). In order for the medication to work, there needs to be a horrific trauma for them to act upon. To seal off memory of the former world, there had to be a cauterizing event that could allow new memories to form while the drugs worked on all that was old. Hence the name changes and everything designed to foster a new existence.

Without this, news of the old world and what took place would persist across generations, which would be tumultuous and cause dissension and uprisings. Donald thinks this to himself toward the end of the book, that the bombs were props and nothing more. The nanos were in the air for years prior to the convention. They were already in everyone's blood.

MEGA SPOILER: Donald may have feared that meeting Thurman in the nanochamber infected him with something. But maybe it *cleaned* him of something worse. And maybe everyone who survived at the convention had a similar meeting with someone, somewhere, before the convention.
Thanks Hugh. I wouldn't normally get this caught up in a plot device, but this time it was worth it .
orlok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 06:07 PM   #12
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,034
Karma: 18736532
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
Spoiler:
I got the impressions that the bombs were a distraction, to get the people to rush into the silos. "Get inside! Nanobots are everywhere! Might not have worked as well.
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 09:57 PM   #13
cearbhallain
Groupie
cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
cearbhallain's Avatar
 
Posts: 183
Karma: 1053258
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Fort Vancouver
Device: nook
I really want to read this but I can only find it at Amazon. If I buy it there, will I be able to convert it so that I can read it on my Nook? Is it DRM free?
cearbhallain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 10:26 PM   #14
alansplace
Grand Sorcerer
alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alansplace ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
alansplace's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,883
Karma: 464403178
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: 33.9388° N, 117.2716° W
Device: Kindles K-2, K-KB, PW 1 & 2, Voyage, Fire 2, 5 & HD 8, Surface 3, iPad
Cool Is it DRM free?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cearbhallain View Post
I really want to read this but I can only find it at Amazon. If I buy it there, will I be able to convert it so that I can read it on my Nook? Is it DRM free?
Yes.
alansplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 11:39 PM   #15
cearbhallain
Groupie
cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cearbhallain ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
cearbhallain's Avatar
 
Posts: 183
Karma: 1053258
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Fort Vancouver
Device: nook
Thank you. I loved the compendium and am itching to read more.
cearbhallain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wool 1,2,3,4,5 ~Kate Reading Recommendations 512 04-20-2017 08:58 PM
Free (Kindle UK) Alexandra's Legacy: Legacy, Book 1 by N. J. Walters arcadata Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) 3 09-01-2011 12:33 PM
Did anyone watch Dexter tonight? [Spoiler Alert] Daithi Lounge 21 07-11-2010 01:51 PM
Spoiler tag not working pilotbob Feedback 15 06-26-2009 01:12 AM
The Movie Spoiler faie Lounge 1 06-21-2004 04:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:19 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.