Annoying Screen flash

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by robinson

That's the issue... some get used to the flashing, but others do not. I'd never spend hundreds of dollars on a device that I might not get used to!

But tolerating the minimal interruption in viewing isn't a physical discomfort. People may be annoyed, but they'll go through entire books without cussing it out. When asked they'll say that annoys me and I just can't get use to it. In the mean time 50 pages have passed that they haven't given it a second thought.

Originally Posted by robinson

OTOH, millions use their laptop LCDs for hours a day, reading, without problems. I also read ebooks on my IPT without any issues.

This is true, when I was younger I don't recall a backlit screen causing me trouble. So enjoy the freedom of choice while you can.

For others they should know there is a difference in eye strain level between reading a novel on a backlit LCD screen and on an epaper display. If anyone has any level of eye strain doing computer work or surfing the web it will be worse reading a novel on a backlit screen and the eye strain will only increase with age.

Originally Posted by HarryT

And equally truly, many find that reading from backlit LCD screens causes eyestrain. There really is no "one size suits all" solution - you need to find what works for you, personally.

This is true.

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Doesn't happen to me. Doesn't happen to quite a lot of people who participated in that eye strain thread either.

You all should enjoy the fact that you currently have a choice. My daughter reads on her Eee PC with the back light turned down.

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

I generally ascribe it to bad viewing habits.

Learned viewing habits can help computer/office workers tolerate a backlit screen and help reduce eye strain but to "generally ascribe" eye strain to bad viewing habits is a stretch. Various studies report that between 50 to 90% of computer workers report eye strain.

The bottom line though is at this point in your life eye strain doesn't affect you so enjoy the fact that you have a choice in what you use and stop trivializing the affect it has on many others. As you get older the odds are that you will experience eye strain at one time or another.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by dwanthny

You all should enjoy the fact that you currently have a choice. My daughter reads on her Eee PC with the back light turned down.

Learned viewing habits can help computer/office workers tolerate a backlit screen and help reduce eye strain but to "generally ascribe" eye strain to bad viewing habits is a stretch. Various studies report that between 50 to 90% of computer workers report eye strain.

The bottom line though is at this point in your life eye strain doesn't affect you so enjoy the fact that you have a choice in what you use and stop trivializing the affect it has on many others. As you get older the odds are that you will experience eye strain at one time or another.

Not especially likely. By the time fluorescent tube flashing becomes a serious nuisance for me, assuming I have poor enough habits to permit it to become so, and assuming I live that long, I will not own any flashing backlight devices...they'll be LED-lit or OLED or some other technology that does not strobe close to the limit of human perception. I did acknowledge that some people do have a sensitivity, just as some people do have varying degrees of lactose intolerance (common where I live, but that does not scare me away from milk products), or perhaps photosensitive epilepsy. I however consider it closer to RSIs, which is more behavioral in nature, and often caused by poor habits, perhaps exacerbated by environments and products that, when used without common sense, promote bad habits. Not everyone needs an ergonomic split modified dvorak keyboard. Those who do will often say it's the normal keyboards that gave them CTS.

FWIW, I like reading on my eeePC. It's far from ideal, and it sucks in bright sunlight, but it's otherwise pretty usable. The keyboard on it is pretty usable too, without any RSI issues, despite its small size and relatively stupid placement of the right shift key.

[ziegl027]

The normal refresh of my screen doesn't bother me. But every now and then it does an "extra" black flash, slightly after the new page is rendered. Not all books, and not all pages within a book. I think I noticed it about halfway through "A Christmas Carol" that I got from Project Gutenberg in ePub format. It hadn't been there in the beginning, and it wasn't every page after it started. But it was genuinely annoying.

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Not especially likely. By the time fluorescent tube flashing becomes a serious nuisance for me, assuming I have poor enough habits to permit it to become so, and assuming I live that long, I will not own any flashing backlight devices...they'll be LED-lit or OLED or some other technology that does not strobe close to the limit of human perception.

Three cheers for the future!

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

FWIW, I like reading on my eeePC. It's far from ideal, and it sucks in bright sunlight, but it's otherwise pretty usable. The keyboard on it is pretty usable too, without any RSI issues, despite its small size and relatively stupid placement of the right shift key.

This was the best money I've ever spent. She no longer has to fight with her brother for time on the "family computer" and she can use it anywhere she likes.

If I remember right her Eee PC is the 1000HE and the shift key is still small but in the proper place.

[robinson]

My motivation in posting here was because I kept seeing e-ink advocates across the Internet sweepingly condemn LCD screens and argue that e-ink readers were easy on the eyes--and much easier than LCDs. Statements such as "LCD screens are not good for reading", "LCDs give you eye strain", "Reading on an LCD is like staring into a bright bulb", etc. You all know the type of comments I mean.

It's led to many roundly mocking the iPad as an ereading device--and that's just silly.

I still have full confidence in my statement that millions use and read text on LCD screens for hours a day without eye strain. Now clearly, spend 10-12 hours during the day reading on any device, without breaks, isn't good (as the eye docs say, fixed focus for that long a time is bad for the eyes and can cause headaches and eye strain). But several hours? No sweat for the multitudes.

Sources of Eye Strain

Plus, I'll bet that a big part of the problem with eye strain on LCDs comes from the Flash animation ads during web browsing--they are visually distracting--and from the horizontally long dimensions of many laptops. It's hard on the eyes to move right to left, back and forth, so much. That's an often unrecognized factor in why both the Kindles and i-devices (iPhone, iPod Touch) are loved by many for reading.

I'll also wager that the people who get eye strain from LCDs have the brightness ramped up fully and are using black text against a bright white background-- and have ambient lighting problems (glare, bright fluorescents, etc.)

Fixes

Turning down the brightness, reformatting to a narrower column, changing to double spacing, increasing the font size, turning off lights, or changing the color scheme can make all the difference in the world for ereading on an LCD (e.g., give the page a parchment light tan, or read blue or green text set on a black background).

iBooks' Page Turning

As to the iBooks' page turning animation--it's cool, but it would be the first thing I'd turn off. (Apple better have an option to do that.) The best readers on the i-devices (Stanza, eReader) permit all sorts of customization, including colors, font size, and turning off page animation. So, there should be no visual or page turning artifacts on an iPad while ereading compared to the bothersome screen flashing on an e-ink device! (Sorry, couldn't stop myself from making one more crack about that! )

[MikeRo]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Not especially likely. By the time fluorescent tube flashing becomes a serious nuisance for me, assuming I have poor enough habits to permit it to become so, and assuming I live that long...

It has very little to do with "bad habits" and everything to do with aging. I always practiced "good habits" because I work all day, everyday with computers. I adjust brightness to conditions, set my monitors to a colour temperature of 6500 K, take breaks, etc. My eyes still went. When I complained to my doctor, his response was "Welcome to your 40's. Nearly everyone goes through this at some point between 40 and 55." So if you are not affected yet, put it off to good genes not good habits. Don't believe me? Talk to any eye doctor.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by MikeRo

Nearly everyone goes through this at some point between 40 and 55."

Yep - been there . It was amazing how quickly it happened for me, too. Within a year I went from having no problems at all with computer screens to needing reading glasses to be able to read them at all.

[ziegl027]

Originally Posted by robinson

Fixes

Turning down the brightness, reformatting to a narrower column, changing to double spacing, increasing the font size, turning off lights, or changing the color scheme can make all the difference in the world for ereading on an LCD (e.g., give the page a parchment light tan, or read blue or green text set on a black background).

'kay. I tried reading on my Fujitsu p1510 convertible tablet. The width in portrait mode is about like a pBook, or my Sony. So that apparently isn't it for me. I tried reading in a darkened room and a well lit room. I adjusted the fonts. I confess I didn't muck around with trying to change background and type colors, I couldn't find a ready means of doing so. I'm not about to futz with the brightness of my monitors, as most of what I do (reading diagnostic medical images) pretty much requires that the brightness be maxed out, and I don't want to be messing with those controls constantly. I don't want to screw around with settings, I want to drop a file on a device and READ IT without feeling like my eyes are going to start spontaneously bleeding.

And, yes, I "read" on a computer for hours a day. On chat boards, e-mail, editing documents, writing and reading reports. But that is a very different kind of reading with frequent breaks away from the screen to look at the keyboard, look at an image file, etc. Not sitting down and JUST READING text. That I can't handle and I've been trying off and on for two years.

Maybe an iPod/Phone has the ability to do these sorts of things more easily. But the screen size is just too small for me. Maybe the iPad will be different in terms of eye strain for ME (and/or easier to make it so), but I suspect it will be too heavy. The p1510 is definitely too heavy for routine recreational use, and even my Sony Touch isn't quite as light as a pBook paperbook.

I'm not sure why everybody tries to convince everybody else that their personal preferences, experiences, or problems are all in their head or can be "fixed" if they just get used to it or do something else. It's fine to make some suggestions for things to try or share your experiences, but why can't everybody accept that different people have different experiences and tolerances? If the screen flash on an e-ink screen bothers you and you've given it an honest shot, fine. Return it. I don't think you'll get used to it any more than I'll get used to and enjoy raisins in my oatmeal cookies. If you don't like the glare or the contrast on the Sony Touch or Daily, you have my sympathies, not my instructions on how to hold it just so or direct your lighting. You shouldn't have to consciously think about how to handle such things in order to read comfortably on your device, IMO. If you are happy reading on your netbook or your iPhone or your hacked programmable calculator, congrats! But don't try to convince the world that EVERYBODY should be equally as happy.

[MikeRo]

Originally Posted by robinson

...
Fixes

Turning down the brightness, reformatting to a narrower column, changing to double spacing, increasing the font size, turning off lights, or changing the color scheme can make all the difference in the world for ereading on an LCD (e.g., give the page a parchment light tan, or read blue or green text set on a black background).
...

The single biggest impact to my eyes has always been setting the colour temperature of monitors to 6500 K. This is closest to the spectrum emitted by the Sun and I find it the most comfortable setting. All that being said, at my age I now prefer e-ink over LCD for extended reading.

As so many others have commented it all comes down to personal preferences - what is most comfortable for your eyes.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by MikeRo

It has very little to do with "bad habits" and everything to do with aging. I always practiced "good habits" because I work all day, everyday with computers. I adjust brightness to conditions, set my monitors to a colour temperature of 6500 K, take breaks, etc. My eyes still went. When I complained to my doctor, his response was "Welcome to your 40's. Nearly everyone goes through this at some point between 40 and 55." So if you are not affected yet, put it off to good genes not good habits. Don't believe me? Talk to any eye doctor.

You are then confusing vision degradation (which I was not talking about) with acute eye strain (which most people complain about).

[MikeRo]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

You are then confusing vision degradation (which I was not talking about) with acute eye strain (which most people complain about).

No I am not. You have explicitly stated again and again that if we would only follow your instructions we would not suffer from eye strain. What I am trying to say is that as we get older the length of time it takes before eye strain kicks in gets shorter. Again, please talk to an eye doctor.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by MikeRo

No I am not. You have explicitly stated again and again that if we would only follow your instructions we would not suffer from eye strain. What I am trying to say is that as we get older the length of time it takes before eye strain kicks in gets shorter. Again, please talk to an eye doctor.

My eye doctor claims any long-term staring at a fixed distance will cause eye strain.

As for my "instructions" for people? I'm sometimes shocked that this place is called MobileRead.

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

My eye doctor claims any long-term staring at a fixed distance will cause eye strain.

As for my "instructions" for people? I'm sometimes shocked that this place is called MobileRead.

I don't understand why you are in denial that a backlit screen and age add substantially to eye strain. How does your eye doctor's accurate claim change that simple fact?

Your doctor seems to agree that web browsing and email are different from recreational reading. The lesser degree of intensity and the shorter focus times etc..

Like I said before.

The bottom line though is at this point in your life eye strain doesn't affect you so enjoy the fact that you have a choice in what you use and stop trivializing the affect it has on many others. As you get older the odds are that you will experience eye strain at one time or another.

[MikeRo]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

My eye doctor claims any long-term staring at a fixed distance will cause eye strain.

As for my "instructions" for people? I'm sometimes shocked that this place is called MobileRead.

In response to your second statement:

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

...I generally ascribe it to bad viewing habits...

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Not especially likely. By the time fluorescent tube flashing becomes a serious nuisance for me, assuming I have poor enough habits to permit it to become so, ...I however consider it closer to RSIs, which is more behavioral in nature, and often caused by poor habits, perhaps exacerbated by environments and products that, when used without common sense, promote bad habits...

These statements are pretty clear: You believe that the majority of people who suffer from eye strain quicker when using backlit devices as opposed to non-backlit devices are just using the backlit devices incorrectly and, by inference, if we would just learn to use these devices correctly we would not suffer.

First statement: Yes and eye strain becomes worse as you age. That is what I was talking about in my first post. My vision is virtually the same as twenty years ago. What has changed is the fact that I now have bifocals (actually progressive lenses) and I can no longer use backlit devices comfortably for the same length of time as before. I practiced (and still do) "good habits" when using these devices and it does not matter. Age catches up with all of us.

Why do backlit devices increase eye strain? Don't know. I don't know if an LED LCD would be better as I have not tried one. Nor have I tried any of the other newer technologies. I am not in the "if it glows, it blows" camp because I have not tried all the glowing devices yet. I do have an e-ink device and I do know it is far easier on my eyes than my current LCD devices.

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yep - been there . It was amazing how quickly it happened for me, too. Within a year I went from having no problems at all with computer screens to needing reading glasses to be able to read them at all.

I find that I have to use Readability more often in order to read news articles on my computers.