07-06-2013, 09:26 AM | #31 | |
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But the irrationality of their whinge goes one step beyond: it is a known fact that books sell better at lower prices. (Surprising, no?) If they dropped the price, sales would go up and they might actually be taking in *more* money and the book would definitely reach more people. But that would be "devaluing" literature. Last edited by fjtorres; 07-06-2013 at 09:29 AM. |
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07-06-2013, 09:56 AM | #32 | |||
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I have myself, been out to a bricks and mortar bookshop and bought a book that was the next in a series I was reading. I paid more for the book than I might have done had I bought it on online for the simple reason that I wanted to purchase it that day and not have to wait for delivery as I would have, had I bought on from an online reseller. That is just one of the factors that consumers will consider when making purchases. Quote:
I have not made any comment on the legality of the the strategy Amazon are currently following, so I'm not quite sure why you've even raised this. The legality of predatory pricing is not at question here—the ethical and moral business practice of doing it are, whether it's provable or not, and I believe I made comment to that effect in a previous post. Quote:
With the launch of the Kindle, Amazon promoted a low baseline price of $9.99 for most e-books. That meant that Amazon was selling virtually all newly published e-books at a loss. For example: A new book with a hardcover list price of $29.95 would be given an e-book price of $23.95 — 20 percent less to account for the publisher’s savings in printing, binding and distribution. The publisher would sell that e-book to Amazon for $12, and Amazon would retail it for $9.99, taking a $2 loss. Why would Amazon do this? Observers have proposed several motives. Perhaps Amazon aimed to entice heavy readers to the newfangled Kindle; the customer could tell herself she’d make up the cost of the device in savings on the books themselves. Others have suggested that cheap e-books were loss leaders that drew customers back to Amazon over and over again, presumably so they’d go on to purchase high-margin items like TVs. The most popular theory by far holds that Amazon intended from the start to totally dominate the e-book marketplace. By using its wealth to subsidize the sale of e-books at a loss, it could drive any competitors out of the market. Bricks-and-mortar chains like Barnes and Noble and online start-ups like Kobo (both of which would introduce their own e-reader devices) or device-neutral rivals like Google would simply not be willing or able to bleed cash as long as Amazon could. And because the Kindle is a “closed platform” — Kindle e-books can only be read on Kindle devices or apps — the more Kindle e-books a customer owned, the more reluctant she’d be to switch to a different device. Source: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/01/ever...ook_price_war/ |
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07-06-2013, 10:06 AM | #33 | |
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07-06-2013, 10:16 AM | #34 |
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Because the publisher sets the price, not the author. Amazon buys the books from the publisher and sets its own price for them—a price I might add that neither author nor the publisher can control.
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07-06-2013, 10:23 AM | #35 | |
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Yes, Amazon set the price, but I've never heard of them selling at a price which is MORE than the publisher (or author) specifies, so if the publisher reduces the price, then so will Amazon. |
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07-06-2013, 10:53 AM | #36 |
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The book in question is a US Trade Paperback with a suggested list of $34.95. Amazon is currently offering it for $25.01 (a 28% discount, for a saving of $9.94). It is also available on Kindle for $9.34.
According to the article, Amazon raised the price to over $30, from $23, and now seems to have lowered it back down somewhat. The real issue here, though, is that the book is grossly overpriced. Even at $25 it's still well over the average price I'll pay for a trade paperback, as most of the ones we've bought in the last year ran under $20. Last I heard, Amazon was under no obligation to subsidize the publishers of overpriced books by discounting them back to competitive levels, especially when almost every book listed in the NYT article is available on Kindle for around ten dollars. The glaring exception is the $65 bibliography of Jim Harrison, which is not available on Kindle at all. Yes, competition from Amazon has made things difficult for other booksellers, but these examples don't show unfair competition or predatory pricing. It's the natural result of publishing overpriced books. |
07-06-2013, 11:37 AM | #37 | |
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As far as I understand it, publishers sell those books to resellers on a ‘sale or return basis’, usually at something like 50% of the publishers recommended retail price. So if the publisher sets a book RRP at say 29.99, that will usually be sold to the reseller at 14.99. That would usually dictate a resale price for that book at between 14.99 and 29.99, but it’s solely at the resellers discretion as to what price they set. So, to suggest that the publisher should reduce their price wouldn’t necessarily translate into a reduced selling price by the reseller. They may just decide to keep more of the profit for themselves and keep the resale price at the same level. |
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07-06-2013, 11:53 AM | #38 | |
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So if that trade paperback you mention has a RRP of 34.95, Amazon would be buying that for 34.95 minus the 20% cost of paper book printing and distribution, minus 50%. So 34.95 minus 6.99 = 27.96, minus 50% = 13.98. So Amazon buy that e-book from the publisher at 13.98. You don't think selling that e-book at 9.34, making a loss of 4.64 is predatory pricing in any way? |
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07-06-2013, 12:03 PM | #39 |
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Are you sure? I thought that Amazon paid a simple percentage royalty for eBooks. What would "sale or return" even mean for an ebook? How would you "return" it?
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07-06-2013, 12:03 PM | #40 | |
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And no... Amazon doesn't buy ebooks on a wholesale/return basis like they do with physical books. No one does. Last edited by DiapDealer; 07-06-2013 at 12:06 PM. |
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07-06-2013, 12:10 PM | #41 | ||
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I am not making purchases to keep businesses going. I am making purchases of the things I want and need at the best prices that I can get them for. I make purchases based on what I consider is a good value to me. If I think it is worth a higher price then I will pay it, if not I won't. There will always be a new business to pop up to fill in the gaps, that's business. Businesses operate to make a profit usually by selling OVERPRICED goods to rip off customers. B&N purchased Fictionwise for the sole purpose of eliminating their competition and they succeeded, now they themselves are in the same boat. Cry me a river, they are getting exactly what they deserve! Aside from a lot of speculation, NOBODY has yet proven that Amazon is/has broken any laws. When it does then you will have something to whine about. The book industry is changing thanks to the invention of ereaders/ebooks. Publishers & big bookstores are refusing to accept the new reality. So if they die they have no one to blame but themselves. If the whiner of an author wanted to control the price of his book he should have self published it. But he wanted the "prestige" of having a publisher thereby giving away his rights to his own work. Too bad, so sad live and learn. |
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07-06-2013, 12:13 PM | #42 | |
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07-06-2013, 12:22 PM | #43 |
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HoraceWimp seems to have not encountered the concept of Loss Leaders. You know, $0.25 loaves of bread to get you into the store so you'll buy something else. I don't think I've ever seen a grocery store being accused of predation.
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07-06-2013, 12:27 PM | #44 | ||
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07-06-2013, 12:28 PM | #45 | |
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Most other resellers of e-books use the agency system pioneered by Apple in their iTunes store whereby they simply take x% commission on whatever items were sold. When Amazon started out selling e-books they most definitely negotiated with publishers to use the old ‘sale or return system’ as opposed to the newer ‘agency system’ for the specific purpose that it allowed Amazon to undercut their competitors and sell e-books at a loss, rather than simply take a % off the top of the sale. This is how Amazon were initially able to sell so many e-books at a loss and grow their Kindle market (a smaller loss than the agency system would have produced)—because Amazon themselves were able to set the price and not be dictated to by what price the publisher set. Whether Amazon have now switched to the newer agency system I couldn’t say because I don’t know. I believe they may still be fighting this with the publishers who want them to switch to the agency system. |
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