Global warming or not?

Icarusbop · 11-26-2009, 08:22 AM

Hello:

with the recent hoo Hah in the news about global warming data because of the leaked / stolen emails. I was wondering what everyone's opinions of Global Warming are.

I have watched an inconvenient truth, and read a bool called 'Global warming and other bo****ck' both presenting a different face on similar data.

I do think that Recycling is a good idea, global warming or not. ( at least it will help save the trees! ).

We also need to consider the possibility that global warming is happening, but not caused my man (non-anthropogenic global warming)..
so, what do you all reckon?

Nate the great · 11-26-2009, 09:24 AM

Temperature data from the US can't be trusted. Any world data that includes US measurements can't be relied on until you remove the US data.

http://surfacestations.org/

IV you look at the pie chart you'll see that 8% of temp stations in the US are on or near a heat source (asphalt, electronics, building, etc), and 61% are within 10 meters of a heat source.

Nate the great · 11-26-2009, 09:25 AM

I can't answer the poll because my answer isn't there. I think we still lack definite data to say that global warming is or is not happening.

Katti's Cat · 11-26-2009, 09:28 AM

Well, I think it's a combination of things. I think, that the population and their demand on consumer goods has added to global warming. But I also think that it's one of the 'natural' cycles in the worlds evolution.

Together it's just getting warm till all the ice is gone and then we get another ice age?

Doesn't hurt to try and conserve energy and be more environment friendly thought - is enough rubbish floating around so lets try and reduce it.

Sparrow · 11-26-2009, 09:31 AM

I thought 'An Inconvenient Truth' was rubbish - but most of it was recycled, so that was good.

I like the idea of living on a less polluted planet, and the science what I understand seems to make sense. Although I also think natural climate change is a major contributory factor.

I'll believe it's a genuinely scary problem when human population growth makes an appearance on the doom-mongers' agenda; until that happens, I'm not worried.

WT Sharpe · 11-26-2009, 10:11 AM

I believe in global warming, and I believe it is largely caused by things we are doing to the planet, but I have to admit I’m biased. I believe because I read Scientific American, subscribe online to New Scientist, listen to podcasts from Nature and Science Friday, keep up with the latest news from Science Daily, read books by scientists, etc. I haven’t paid much attention to Fox news commentators or listened to what scientific experts like Rush Limbaugh or Republican politicians have to say on the subject, so for those who are ahead of me in that regard, please forgive my ignorance.

And that’s all I’m going to say about that, because I have no desire to waste my time trying to convince the unconvincible.

FlorenceArt · 11-26-2009, 10:12 AM

I think we don't know, but we won't know until it's too late to do anything if there is something to be done. So why not err on the side of caution?

The thing with global warming is, it's probably not worse than many things that happened in the past on this planet. The difference is that we now have - how many? - something like 6 billion? - people on it to feed and house. A very small difference can have devastating effects.

It's like volcanoes, meteors and earthquakes. Not so long ago, a meteor destroyed a huge area somewhere in Siberia. Nobody noticed at the time. If it happened now, what would be the chances of nobody, or only a few people, getting hurt? There are people everywhere. We don't have that much margin for error.

My answer to the question would be, it's probably happening, it's probably at least partly our fault, and we need to do something about it, and try not to create even more problems while we do it

markbot · 11-26-2009, 11:03 AM

Anthropogenic global warming theories are chiefly meant to force redistribution of wealth and to slow down US prosperity so that the EU can "counter balance" US dominance better.

It is also to hasten diversification of energy, which is a good thing.

The ocean and sun have the largest effect on the earth's weather patterns. Plus, there are automatic stabilizers built into the carbon cycle that will balance the carbon in the atmosphere.

wodin · 11-26-2009, 04:12 PM

Humankind, in it's arrogance has decided that it is outside the natural order of things. Time and again in geological history, one species has proliferated to the point of being capable of changing the entire ecosystem of the planet.

Indeed, that's how life as we know it evolved e.g. blue-green algae created the oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere required by all life forms, including us, today.

And that's not even counting non-biological events like asteroid/comet collisions, volcanoes, solar variances, and the like.

When we realize that we are part of the process, not the creators of it, we will have gone far towards understanding it.

fugazied · 11-26-2009, 05:08 PM

The earth' atmosphere is a nearly closed system. You can only emit so many gasses before that system become unbalanced. For example eruptions of volcanoes or asteroids which cause a lot of debris to enter the atmosphere have caused catastrophic extinctions in the past.

Increase in carbon released into the atmosphere appears to correlate to the increase in temperature. Looking at the vetted science easily demonstrates this. Looking at the IPCC data shows sea level rises and other environmental changes that should be of great concern to any rational person.

Unfortunately many human beings are not rational, rely on misinformation picked up from news networks or simply hate/fear science. Some people who are deeply religious would in fact embrace the end of days, so to them global warming isn't something to fear. Some people have been mislead by their political leaders who also hated science (eg. George W Bush who let corporate lobbyists modify scientific documents).

So the science has to battle a wave of misinformation, ignorance and FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_u...inty_and_doubt) before we can act on it.

The global warming skeptics say they aren't being listened to, but all they need to do is publish their articles refuting global warming theory in a peer reviewed journal. The problem is, because they don't have the science to back up their skepticism they don't get published. They continue to remain on the fringe, spreading FUD without any valid peer reviewed scientific hypothesis.

So instead of listening to the scientific community, who actually study this stuff for a living, we have a large part of the population who prefer to listen to a: tiny number of scientists who can't prove their alternate theories in peer reviewed academic circles, conservative weathermen, conservative talking heads like o'relliy/beck/hannity and the oil and gas lobby.

People are turning it into a political issue, but really it's science vs ignorance. The science is very well documented and has been around for a few decades. If people placed as much weight on what scientists say as they did Fox news talking heads the world would be a better place.

Come on Nate, really you don't believe ANY of the science?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
http://www.ipcc.ch/

Plenty of peer reviewed scientific data which shows glaciers melting, sea levels rising, sea temperature rising, carbon rising.

Nate the great · 11-26-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fugazied

The earth' atmosphere is a nearly closed system. You can only emit so many gasses before that system become unbalanced. For example eruptions of volcanoes or asteroids which cause a lot of debris to enter the atmosphere have caused catastrophic extinctions in the past.

Increase in carbon released into the atmosphere appears to correlate to the increase in temperature. Looking at the vetted science easily demonstrates this. Looking at the IPCC data shows sea level rises and other environmental changes that should be of great concern to any rational person.

Unfortunately many human beings are not rational, rely on misinformation picked up from news networks or simply hate/fear science. Some people who are deeply religious would in fact embrace the end of days, so to them global warming isn't something to fear. Some people have been mislead by their political leaders who also hated science (eg. George W Bush who let corporate lobbyists modify scientific documents).

So the science has to battle a wave of misinformation, ignorance and FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_u...inty_and_doubt) before we can act on it.

The global warming skeptics say they aren't being listened to, but all they need to do is publish their articles refuting global warming theory in a peer reviewed journal. The problem is, because they don't have the science to back up their skepticism they don't get published. They continue to remain on the fringe, spreading FUD without any valid peer reviewed scientific hypothesis.

So instead of listening to the scientific community, who actually study this stuff for a living, we have a large part of the population who prefer to listen to a: tiny number of scientists who can't prove their alternate theories in peer reviewed academic circles, conservative weathermen, conservative talking heads like o'relliy/beck/hannity and the oil and gas lobby.

People are turning it into a political issue, but really it's science vs ignorance. The science is very well documented and has been around for a few decades. If people placed as much weight on what scientists say as they did Fox news talking heads the world would be a better place.

Come on Nate, really you don't believe ANY of the science?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
http://www.ipcc.ch/

Plenty of peer reviewed scientific data which shows glaciers melting, sea levels rising, sea temperature rising, carbon rising.

No, I don't "believe" the science. Belief in the absence of verifiable evidence is religion, not science.

Your argument hinges on the temperature having increased. But as I showed in my previous post, the temperature data cannot be trusted. Since you cannot show that the temperature has increased, your arguments about anthropocentric global warming have no merit.

kindlekitten · 11-26-2009, 06:09 PM

there is anthropological evidence of increases and decreases of temperature for as long as we have been able to track things. have we exacerbated the issue? sure. have we doomed the planet due to climate change? unlikely. have other actions that we insist on repeating put us in jeapordy? possibly.

if nothing else the focus on this issue has gotten people to clean up their acts, think about renewable energy. actually recycle. try to walk more softly on the planet

Katti's Cat · 11-26-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

there is anthropological evidence of increases and decreases of temperature for as long as we have been able to track things.

Well and herein lies the problem. How long have humans tracked the temperature - yeah, a couple of hundred years might seem long, but in the light of the age of Earth it's nothing.

No matter if you believe in global warming or not, it doesn't hurt to do your bit to save the environment.

Xiaopanda · 11-26-2009, 09:31 PM

Undenyable Ignorance is not going to stop me from outting my two cents in, and neither is poor spelling:

I think that the Earth is still cycling out of the last Ice age, and Global warming is a natural phenom. I think that Humans are contributing to it, but to be honest, Global "Dimming" (less light coming through from the sun 'cos of debris in the air / atmosphere) is a little more disempowering and scary in the short term than Global Warming will ever be.

kindlekitten · 11-26-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

Well and herein lies the problem. How long have humans tracked the temperature - yeah, a couple of hundred years might seem long, but in the light of the age of Earth it's nothing.

No matter if you believe in global warming or not, it doesn't hurt to do your bit to save the environment.

it can be looked at in tree rings, vegetation used, and many other resources left in the record

View Poll Results: Global warming or not, man-made or not?
It's all our fault! And we should do domething about it.	85	40.09%
It's all our fault, but it is too late to mend it.	10	4.72%
It is happening, but not our fault. (part of the planets natural cycle)	52	24.53%
Don't believe in Global warming, it's all a fabrication.	36	16.98%
The blue fish, in the sea (which isn't rising)	10	4.72%
Non of the above...	19	8.96%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

11-26-2009, 08:22 AM	#1
Icarusbop Groupie Posts: 156 Karma: 25846 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Device: PRS505	Global warming or not? Hello: with the recent hoo Hah in the news about global warming data because of the leaked / stolen emails. I was wondering what everyone's opinions of Global Warming are. I have watched an inconvenient truth, and read a bool called 'Global warming and other bo****ck' both presenting a different face on similar data. I do think that Recycling is a good idea, global warming or not. ( at least it will help save the trees! ). We also need to consider the possibility that global warming is happening, but not caused my man (non-anthropogenic global warming).. so, what do you all reckon?

11-26-2009, 11:03 AM	#8
markbot Guru Posts: 612 Karma: 7511929 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New York, NY Device: Amazon Kindle Paperwhite 2	Anthropogenic global warming theories are chiefly meant to force redistribution of wealth and to slow down US prosperity so that the EU can "counter balance" US dominance better. It is also to hasten diversification of energy, which is a good thing. The ocean and sun have the largest effect on the earth's weather patterns. Plus, there are automatic stabilizers built into the carbon cycle that will balance the carbon in the atmosphere. Last edited by markbot; 11-26-2009 at 11:05 AM.

11-26-2009, 05:08 PM	#10
fugazied Wizard Posts: 1,305 Karma: 1958 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: iPod Touch	The earth' atmosphere is a nearly closed system. You can only emit so many gasses before that system become unbalanced. For example eruptions of volcanoes or asteroids which cause a lot of debris to enter the atmosphere have caused catastrophic extinctions in the past. Increase in carbon released into the atmosphere appears to correlate to the increase in temperature. Looking at the vetted science easily demonstrates this. Looking at the IPCC data shows sea level rises and other environmental changes that should be of great concern to any rational person. Unfortunately many human beings are not rational, rely on misinformation picked up from news networks or simply hate/fear science. Some people who are deeply religious would in fact embrace the end of days, so to them global warming isn't something to fear. Some people have been mislead by their political leaders who also hated science (eg. George W Bush who let corporate lobbyists modify scientific documents). So the science has to battle a wave of misinformation, ignorance and FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_u...inty_and_doubt) before we can act on it. The global warming skeptics say they aren't being listened to, but all they need to do is publish their articles refuting global warming theory in a peer reviewed journal. The problem is, because they don't have the science to back up their skepticism they don't get published. They continue to remain on the fringe, spreading FUD without any valid peer reviewed scientific hypothesis. So instead of listening to the scientific community, who actually study this stuff for a living, we have a large part of the population who prefer to listen to a: tiny number of scientists who can't prove their alternate theories in peer reviewed academic circles, conservative weathermen, conservative talking heads like o'relliy/beck/hannity and the oil and gas lobby. People are turning it into a political issue, but really it's science vs ignorance. The science is very well documented and has been around for a few decades. If people placed as much weight on what scientists say as they did Fox news talking heads the world would be a better place. Come on Nate, really you don't believe ANY of the science? http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming http://www.ipcc.ch/ Plenty of peer reviewed scientific data which shows glaciers melting, sea levels rising, sea temperature rising, carbon rising. Last edited by fugazied; 11-26-2009 at 05:18 PM.

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11-26-2009, 09:24 AM	#2
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	Temperature data from the US can't be trusted. Any world data that includes US measurements can't be relied on until you remove the US data. http://surfacestations.org/ IV you look at the pie chart you'll see that 8% of temp stations in the US are on or near a heat source (asphalt, electronics, building, etc), and 61% are within 10 meters of a heat source.

11-26-2009, 09:25 AM	#3
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	I can't answer the poll because my answer isn't there. I think we still lack definite data to say that global warming is or is not happening.

11-26-2009, 09:28 AM	#4
Katti's Cat Wizard Posts: 2,259 Karma: 175640 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Device: Sony PRS-600	Well, I think it's a combination of things. I think, that the population and their demand on consumer goods has added to global warming. But I also think that it's one of the 'natural' cycles in the worlds evolution. Together it's just getting warm till all the ice is gone and then we get another ice age? Doesn't hurt to try and conserve energy and be more environment friendly thought - is enough rubbish floating around so lets try and reduce it.

11-26-2009, 09:31 AM	#5
Sparrow Wizard Posts: 4,395 Karma: 1358132 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3	I thought 'An Inconvenient Truth' was rubbish - but most of it was recycled, so that was good. I like the idea of living on a less polluted planet, and the science what I understand seems to make sense. Although I also think natural climate change is a major contributory factor. I'll believe it's a genuinely scary problem when human population growth makes an appearance on the doom-mongers' agenda; until that happens, I'm not worried.

11-26-2009, 10:11 AM	#6
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,073 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	I believe in global warming, and I believe it is largely caused by things we are doing to the planet, but I have to admit I’m biased. I believe because I read Scientific American, subscribe online to New Scientist, listen to podcasts from Nature and Science Friday, keep up with the latest news from Science Daily, read books by scientists, etc. I haven’t paid much attention to Fox news commentators or listened to what scientific experts like Rush Limbaugh or Republican politicians have to say on the subject, so for those who are ahead of me in that regard, please forgive my ignorance. And that’s all I’m going to say about that, because I have no desire to waste my time trying to convince the unconvincible.

11-26-2009, 10:12 AM	#7
FlorenceArt High Priestess Posts: 5,761 Karma: 5042529 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Montreuil sous bois, France Device: iPad Pro 9.7, iPhone 6 Plus	I think we don't know, but we won't know until it's too late to do anything if there is something to be done. So why not err on the side of caution? The thing with global warming is, it's probably not worse than many things that happened in the past on this planet. The difference is that we now have - how many? - something like 6 billion? - people on it to feed and house. A very small difference can have devastating effects. It's like volcanoes, meteors and earthquakes. Not so long ago, a meteor destroyed a huge area somewhere in Siberia. Nobody noticed at the time. If it happened now, what would be the chances of nobody, or only a few people, getting hurt? There are people everywhere. We don't have that much margin for error. My answer to the question would be, it's probably happening, it's probably at least partly our fault, and we need to do something about it, and try not to create even more problems while we do it

11-26-2009, 04:12 PM	#9
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	Humankind, in it's arrogance has decided that it is outside the natural order of things. Time and again in geological history, one species has proliferated to the point of being capable of changing the entire ecosystem of the planet. Indeed, that's how life as we know it evolved e.g. blue-green algae created the oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere required by all life forms, including us, today. And that's not even counting non-biological events like asteroid/comet collisions, volcanoes, solar variances, and the like. When we realize that we are part of the process, not the creators of it, we will have gone far towards understanding it.

11-26-2009, 06:09 PM	#12
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	there is anthropological evidence of increases and decreases of temperature for as long as we have been able to track things. have we exacerbated the issue? sure. have we doomed the planet due to climate change? unlikely. have other actions that we insist on repeating put us in jeapordy? possibly. if nothing else the focus on this issue has gotten people to clean up their acts, think about renewable energy. actually recycle. try to walk more softly on the planet

11-26-2009, 09:31 PM	#14
Xiaopanda Addict Posts: 230 Karma: 1290 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Device: Kindle Paperwhite	Undenyable Ignorance is not going to stop me from outting my two cents in, and neither is poor spelling: I think that the Earth is still cycling out of the last Ice age, and Global warming is a natural phenom. I think that Humans are contributing to it, but to be honest, Global "Dimming" (less light coming through from the sun 'cos of debris in the air / atmosphere) is a little more disempowering and scary in the short term than Global Warming will ever be.

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