How the Tech Parade Passed Sony By - ?the end of Sony eReaders, the end of Sony? - Page 7

HansTWN · 04-21-2012, 08:41 PM

Probably the number one reason why Japan is falling behind so quickly in all areas where they once used to dominate. It seems Japanese companies just can't adapt.

sabredog · 04-21-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Problem is that you then have to hunt for the right drivers for all your hardware. If they are on a virtual disc on your HD (as HP does it), you still looking for a few hours of "installation fun" to finish the job, including downloads for update, etc.

We don't get paid to have all this useless stuff on our computers, so they shouldn't be doing it, period. Now if they did it like Amazon, "Vaio with special offers" (and a reduced price, of course), then it would be another story.

Exactly correct. I have rebuilt dozens of notebooks for family and friends that required driver hunt fun. Best brands for driver support are Dell and Intel IMHO.

Older notebooks are a separate labour of love in their own right. I have had to get drivers from some really bizarre driver sites oft times.

sabredog · 04-21-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

That's good to know. I'm glad that I would rather pay a bit more money for a pc from a locally bought store that makes the pc's & only puts Windows OS system on them.

Not to mention that the name brand pc's are usually stocked with hardware that is very specific to the brand & won't easily take a different piece of hardware if you want to switch something out.

It's worth it to me to spend that extra money to have that kind of flexibility.

I always build clone PC's, staying right away from truly proprietary branded PC's

Andrew H. · 04-21-2012, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Sony wasn't the only ones back then to load a laptop full of crap.

This is very true. But doing so was inconsistent with Sony's attempt to be a high end brand. This is not something that a high end brand should do - it would be like buying a new Lexus and finding it plastered with bumper stickers advertising everything...and having to spend two hours with a razor blade scraping them off to get the car to look the way it should have when you bought it.

I'm not a mac user, but I've always appreciated that they came with no bloatware, trialware, shareware, or other crap.

Kumabjorn · 04-22-2012, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Probably the number one reason why Japan is falling behind so quickly in all areas where they once used to dominate. It seems Japanese companies just can't adapt.

Yeah, they have completely missed the Smartphone revolution. The domestically available phones are locked so tight to the operator it is ridiculous, you can't even buy a non-locked phone. Hard core Japanese techies go to Korea to buy their phones.
With that attitude to their domestic market, no wonder they can't cut it beyond their shores any longer.

HarryT · 04-22-2012, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

This is very true. But doing so was inconsistent with Sony's attempt to be a high end brand. This is not something that a high end brand should do - it would be like buying a new Lexus and finding it plastered with bumper stickers advertising everything...and having to spend two hours with a razor blade scraping them off to get the car to look the way it should have when you bought it.

I honestly don't recall my two Sony Vaio laptops coming with more in the way of demo software than any of the (numerous) other laptops I've owned have had. What makes you believe that Sony are any worse in this regard than other manufacturers?

emellaich · 04-22-2012, 01:54 PM

Regarding bloatware ...

Although we as individuals don't want bloatware, in general the market seems to prefer it. The bottom line is that computer prices are low and still falling lower. Over the last two years, the average price of a windows laptop dropped $80 to $456. Likewise margins have been squeezed.

So we (the market) keeps on insisting on lower prices and profit margins are very thin. It's only through bloatware and sponsorships (intel-inside) that pc manufacturers make enough to stay in the business.

It would be interesting if the manufacturers would offer two options -- kind of like the Kindle with special offers. $500 for a sponsored laptap and $530 for an ad-free version.

no.guru · 04-22-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Problem is that you then have to hunt for the right drivers for all your hardware. If they are on a virtual disc on your HD (as HP does it), you're still looking at a few hours of "installation fun" to finish the job, including downloads for updates, etc.
.

Hardware varies, I'm sure, but I wasn't speaking hypothetically. I've installed Windows 7 on the laptop I'm using currently a couple of times, each time without hardware issues. No driver installation was needed.

It was time-consuming, but only because I wanted everything also on my desktop before installing.

sabredog · 04-22-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no.guru

Hardware varies, I'm sure, but I wasn't speaking hypothetically. I've installed Windows 7 on the laptop I'm using currently a couple of times, each time without hardware issues. No driver installation was needed.

It was time-consuming, but only because I wanted everything also on my desktop before installing.

That does happen IF the OS you are installing recognizes the hardware of the computer you are installing it on.

Oft times the OS will not recognize the hardware. Windows 7 does a remarkable job of identifying and installing driver software if it has a viable internet connection. If the on-board Ethernet/WIFI device is not recognized, that is simply not going to happen.

Even then, the Microsoft driver is often inferior to the OEM device driver and would benefit being updated.

no.guru · 04-23-2012, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabredog

That does happen ...

Yes, that probably explains why it didn't work on my HP desktop; the screen resolution was wrong regardless of adjustment. Puzzling until now because it had worked so well on my Asus laptop the first time. Figured I had grabbed the wrong ISO and just used the Asus again.

I appreciate the explanation.

Andrew H. · 04-23-2012, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I honestly don't recall my two Sony Vaio laptops coming with more in the way of demo software than any of the (numerous) other laptops I've owned have had. What makes you believe that Sony are any worse in this regard than other manufacturers?

I'm not sure that they are worse than Dell, etc. But since they aim for the higher end, they should emulate Apple and not have any.

MikeB1972 · 04-24-2012, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I honestly don't recall my two Sony Vaio laptops coming with more in the way of demo software than any of the (numerous) other laptops I've owned have had. What makes you believe that Sony are any worse in this regard than other manufacturers?

I just got a sony netbook for home use (Expensive yes, but it looks shiny - Ok, so it also had the best specs of any netbook in the store) the demo software was no worse than the dell laptops I get for work but it is a very nice machine.

In fact the only laptop I have got recently with virtually no bloatware on it was a toshiba.

Dan de V · 04-24-2012, 06:16 PM

I have bought Sony products quite often over the years. Why? Because they make consistently high quality hardware that last. But they do not make it easy. I would love for them to make it as easy as Apple but they don't. Great hardware but lousy eco-system and software. Take my Sony Vaio Z that I am typing this post on. It is a premium laptop that out performs any other ultra portable on the market (looking at you "Air") but costs a fortune (so much so that most review websites don't even carry it as a comparitor because it isn't mainstream). And yet when I bought it I still had to spend 5 or 6 hours hunting drivers and doing a clean install of the OS (W7) to get the maximum performance out of the machine. I spent the whole time mumbling that I should have bought the bloody apple machine as it would have been easier........

sabredog · 04-24-2012, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

In fact the only laptop I have got recently with virtually no bloatware on it was a toshiba.

You got lucky there, Toshiba are usually one of the worst for bloatware.

Dell would be the worst, a trade off for being relatively inexpensive.

SeaKing · 04-24-2012, 09:05 PM

I had a Sony GPS unit in a truck. I bought it on a closeout when they were leaving the US market. It was (I guess still is) a wonderful little machine. It had a really nice lane display, and was every bit software wise as good as the more expensive Garmin I now have. I got a new Garmin with a larger screen and more "other" bells and updated maps because to update the maps on the Sony was going to cost over $100 and I had only paid about $70 for the machine. I now use a "lifetime maps" machine.
I looked and Sony still made GPS units, and they looked really great, but they were for the Asian markets. It is strange, their software on that GPS unit compared very well to the best Garmin and TomTom had.

As for as bloatware on the MS type computers, I just remove that without problems, and will always buy the better machine even with bloatware. The problem is with Sony that even with bloatware, their computers cost too much for this old country boy.

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04-21-2012, 08:41 PM	#91
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	Probably the number one reason why Japan is falling behind so quickly in all areas where they once used to dominate. It seems Japanese companies just can't adapt.

04-22-2012, 01:54 PM	#97
emellaich Wizard Posts: 1,101 Karma: 4388403 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Palm>Ebookman>IPaq>Axim>Cybook>Kndl2>IPAD>Kndl3SO>Voyager>Oasis	Regarding bloatware ... Although we as individuals don't want bloatware, in general the market seems to prefer it. The bottom line is that computer prices are low and still falling lower. Over the last two years, the average price of a windows laptop dropped $80 to $456. Likewise margins have been squeezed. So we (the market) keeps on insisting on lower prices and profit margins are very thin. It's only through bloatware and sponsorships (intel-inside) that pc manufacturers make enough to stay in the business. It would be interesting if the manufacturers would offer two options -- kind of like the Kindle with special offers. $500 for a sponsored laptap and $530 for an ad-free version.

04-24-2012, 06:16 PM	#103
Dan de V Avid Reader Posts: 17 Karma: 130530 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cairo Device: PRS 350 & HTC Legend	I have bought Sony products quite often over the years. Why? Because they make consistently high quality hardware that last. But they do not make it easy. I would love for them to make it as easy as Apple but they don't. Great hardware but lousy eco-system and software. Take my Sony Vaio Z that I am typing this post on. It is a premium laptop that out performs any other ultra portable on the market (looking at you "Air") but costs a fortune (so much so that most review websites don't even carry it as a comparitor because it isn't mainstream). And yet when I bought it I still had to spend 5 or 6 hours hunting drivers and doing a clean install of the OS (W7) to get the maximum performance out of the machine. I spent the whole time mumbling that I should have bought the bloody apple machine as it would have been easier........

04-24-2012, 09:05 PM	#105
SeaKing Frequent Flier Posts: 1,282 Karma: 2058993297 Join Date: Oct 2011 Device: KB kindle aboard, Galx Tab 7.0 Plus, trying out Droid 1 as mini-tab	I had a Sony GPS unit in a truck. I bought it on a closeout when they were leaving the US market. It was (I guess still is) a wonderful little machine. It had a really nice lane display, and was every bit software wise as good as the more expensive Garmin I now have. I got a new Garmin with a larger screen and more "other" bells and updated maps because to update the maps on the Sony was going to cost over $100 and I had only paid about $70 for the machine. I now use a "lifetime maps" machine. I looked and Sony still made GPS units, and they looked really great, but they were for the Asian markets. It is strange, their software on that GPS unit compared very well to the best Garmin and TomTom had. As for as bloatware on the MS type computers, I just remove that without problems, and will always buy the better machine even with bloatware. The problem is with Sony that even with bloatware, their computers cost too much for this old country boy.

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