DR800 annotation

Yeast Lord · 03-22-2010, 01:17 PM

I know of three people and myself waiting to buy the IREX dr800 when it has the ability to annotate pdf’s etc. Has any time frame been suggested by IREX for this function?

Mackx · 03-22-2010, 02:03 PM

Did you already find this on the irex site?
The 2nd item announces the Firmware V2.0 for the DR800. It contains:

Quote:

PDF document zoom and scribble functions

TGS · 03-22-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeast Lord

I know of three people and myself waiting to buy the IREX dr800 when it has the ability to annotate pdf’s etc. Has any time frame been suggested by IREX for this function?

April - end of I would guess, (but that guess is mostly so I don't ger my hopes up!).

Shaggy · 03-22-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGS

April - end of I would guess, (but that guess is mostly so I don't ger my hopes up!).

Yeah, my interpretation of that is the approximate date is April, but software updates quite often run over schedule. The important part is that they're working on it, and it should be out relatively soon. Whether it finally gets released in April/May/... etc will depend on how many bugs they find during testing, etc. They're going to want to make sure it works, rather than release a buggy version just to hit some date estimate (which is a good thing).

Given past history with their date estimates, iRex tends to announce "best case" estimates of their dates, not "worst case". Reality usually falls somewhere in between the two. I wouldn't get too hung up on the exact date. If you really want something to base your expectations on, you should probably pad it with an extra month, and assume it won't be out until May. That why it'll be a bonus if they get it out "early".

Although, saying that, I can pretty much guarantee that as soon as 4/1 hits, we're going to start seeing people complaining that the update is not available yet.

jhoff80 · 03-27-2010, 10:40 PM

Add me to the list of people who is interested only when annotation is available as well.

Though, I'm going to need more details on how it works (when they finish it of course) so it's not a definite buy yet by any means. The main thing is I'm hoping the annotations are saved as part of the PDF and not a separate bitmap image or anything of that sort, because I'd need the ability to transfer the document, with the markups, and use it on my tablet PCs as well.

Writing on epubs would be nice too, but I doubt that's going to happen.

Dellaster · 03-27-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhoff80

The main thing is I'm hoping the annotations are saved as part of the PDF and not a separate bitmap image or anything of that sort, because I'd need the ability to transfer the document, with the markups, and use it on my tablet PCs as well.

Others can correct me, but the way I understand it after skimming through the development document is that the scribbles are stored in the metadatabase and it's the association with the file that allows putting the scribbles back where there were when the PDF is opened again.

In other words no, they're not saved as part of the PDF and the device transferred to would need to be able to interpret the same scribble data. (Unlikely unless it's another IREX reader.)

Does any device actually alter the PDF with annotations? Wouldn't that be a problem with Adobe Digital Editions DRM? Or do they only alter non-DRM PDFs?

Mackx · 03-28-2010, 05:02 AM

The xournal port for the DR1000 has the possibility to read the annotations made on pdfs from the metadata.db files and merge (actually add) them with the original pdf. This should also work on the DR800.
The code to do the merge could also be used to make a stand alone version.

HarryT · 03-28-2010, 05:09 AM

I really hope that it's not only PDFs which will have "scribble" support, but ePub too.

jhoff80 · 03-28-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dellaster

Does any device actually alter the PDF with annotations? Wouldn't that be a problem with Adobe Digital Editions DRM? Or do they only alter non-DRM PDFs?

Yeah, not sure, I remove DRM of my purchases immediately, plus I don't have a standalone e-reader yet, I just use PDF Revu on my tablet PC currently.

The PC software I use definitely saves the annotations directly to the PDF file, though I figured it was more likely that e-readers would write to a separate file. Still hoping for it to write as a layer directly on top of the PDF though, but I'm aware that might be wishful thinking.

Shaggy · 03-29-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackx

The xournal port for the DR1000 has the possibility to read the annotations made on pdfs from the metadata.db files and merge (actually add) them with the original pdf. This should also work on the DR800.
The code to do the merge could also be used to make a stand alone version.

Note that they say the current Companion Software will not be able to import the scribbles from the DR1000 anymore. I believe the format of the metadata.db files has changed (or they're using something else now), so the Xournal port will probably not recognize them either.

Shaggy · 03-29-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I really hope that it's not only PDFs which will have "scribble" support, but ePub too.

I hope so too, but we'll have to wait and find out. The release notes only mentioned PDF, and the DR1000 currently only supports it on PDF. But, with the new viewers, I assume both PDF and ePub are based on the same Adobe SDK... don't know how much of their viewer plugins is the same code though.

Mackx · 03-29-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Note that they say the current Companion Software will not be able to import the scribbles from the DR1000 anymore. I believe the format of the metadata.db files has changed (or they're using something else now), so the Xournal port will probably not recognize them either.

Looking at the published code for DR800, the stuff related to document name, author, filesize, etc is stored in a global metadata.db file. This allows quick searches and easy sorting all documents on name, author, date, etc. The annotations are still stored in the local metadata.db, which links to the global metadata to reference the file to which the annotations belong. The functions in the libermetadb hide this from the programmer, so it seems that the current code might even work with this firmware.
Lets wait for the new code and hope that it did not change too much.

Shaggy · 03-29-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackx

Looking at the published code for DR800, the stuff related to document name, author, filesize, etc is stored in a global metadata.db file. This allows quick searches and easy sorting all documents on name, author, date, etc. The annotations are still stored in the local metadata.db, which links to the global metadata to reference the file to which the annotations belong. The functions in the libermetadb hide this from the programmer, so it seems that the current code might even work with this firmware.
Lets wait for the new code and hope that it did not change too much.

Yeah, I agree we'll have to wait and see. The only thing that concerns me is they said that the new annotations break compatibility with the Companion Software. There must be something that has changed. Hopefully, it's something small that can be figured out and fixed in Xournal.

Mackx · 03-29-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Yeah, I agree we'll have to wait and see. The only thing that concerns me is they said that the new annotations break compatibility with the Companion Software. There must be something that has changed. Hopefully, it's something small that can be figured out and fixed in Xournal.

I think it is a commercial choice, if they want to create a program that really adds value they have to make it for Windows, Linux and Mac, they need some kind of merging possibilities for all formats. It would be a very big load on such a small company to write, test and maintain such a program. They would rather spend their resources on new firmware features and future products I guess. For me that is OK, I never really used the Companion Software.

badbob001 · 03-29-2010, 03:20 PM

If we're talking about handwritten annotations, then I'm not sure if Epub even supports that. It's like trying to markup a webpage in manner that is portable, with all the challenges of no definite view given font style/size changes and varying screen sizes. It's not like PDF, where you can have a 100% author-intended view.

I really hope typed notes are supported. They can do something cute like a view with a post-it note stuck onto the page or something more practical like a paperclip at the top to designate a note. What would also be useful is highlighting, which is anchored from text position to text position and so can survive text style changes.

03-22-2010, 01:17 PM	#1
Yeast Lord Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: none	DR800 annotation I know of three people and myself waiting to buy the IREX dr800 when it has the ability to annotate pdf’s etc. Has any time frame been suggested by IREX for this function?

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03-27-2010, 10:40 PM	#5
jhoff80 Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: none	Add me to the list of people who is interested only when annotation is available as well. Though, I'm going to need more details on how it works (when they finish it of course) so it's not a definite buy yet by any means. The main thing is I'm hoping the annotations are saved as part of the PDF and not a separate bitmap image or anything of that sort, because I'd need the ability to transfer the document, with the markups, and use it on my tablet PCs as well. Writing on epubs would be nice too, but I doubt that's going to happen.

03-28-2010, 05:02 AM	#7
Mackx Guru Posts: 999 Karma: 19985 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Netherlands Device: iRex DR1000S	The xournal port for the DR1000 has the possibility to read the annotations made on pdfs from the metadata.db files and merge (actually add) them with the original pdf. This should also work on the DR800. The code to do the merge could also be used to make a stand alone version.

03-28-2010, 05:09 AM	#8
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I really hope that it's not only PDFs which will have "scribble" support, but ePub too.

03-29-2010, 03:20 PM	#15
badbob001 Fanatic Posts: 556 Karma: 1102020 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Kindle Keyboard (rip), Kindle Voyage, Fire Tablet 10 '17, iPad '19	If we're talking about handwritten annotations, then I'm not sure if Epub even supports that. It's like trying to markup a webpage in manner that is portable, with all the challenges of no definite view given font style/size changes and varying screen sizes. It's not like PDF, where you can have a 100% author-intended view. I really hope typed notes are supported. They can do something cute like a view with a post-it note stuck onto the page or something more practical like a paperclip at the top to designate a note. What would also be useful is highlighting, which is anchored from text position to text position and so can survive text style changes.

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