Kindle 3 and RTF Metadata

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by bear4hunter

then you need to resave the PDF like I described here

Thanks! I think that worked (after another restart), at least I'm seeing Author now with the 'problem' PDF. I'm not seeing a Title on the info screen, but that seems to be what Kindle does when the filename is the same as the Title, which it is in this case.

In the future, I suppose I'll have to 'sanitize' the PDFs before putting them on my Kindle if I expect this stuff to display consistently.

I'll check calibre again to see if there's really a problem there.

[bear4hunter]

Your welcome

[KACartlidge]

Originally Posted by Ajax

I don't see where it says that RTF is a supported file format, just that it can be converted via sending wirelessly. So you are not actually viewing an RTF file on the Kindle, but a converted mobi file.

Your list does not appear to be up to date (it does not mention RTF at all), or Amazon provide more than one and they differ. From the Amazon.co.uk site:

Kindle supports wireless delivery of unprotected Microsoft Word (DOC, DOCX), PDF, HTML, TXT, RTF, JPEG, GIF, PNG, BMP, PRC and MOBI files. Some complex PDF and DOCX files might not format correctly on your Kindle.

It specifically says it supports wireless delivery of RTF, which means it supports RTF as a format.

I appreciate the service may convert it on it's way but that is irrelevant (and I accepted that when I said "I believe converted on the fly as they arrive").

Whether Amazon support it natively on the device or via conversion as it transfers is irrelevant to me as a user. I give their process a file. They pass it on to my device. What happens on the way is nothing to do with me.

They claim support for RTF yet struggle with the metadata. If they convert it to mobi on the way then fine, not my concern. The fact remains if they say they support RTF then that very conversion process should see the metadata and add it into the mobi - transparently to me. It appears not to, so the RTF support is lacking.

As I said earlier, I am also open to the fact I may be doing something silly in my RTFs (though they work on the Sony and MS Word).

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by bear4hunter

Your welcome

Unfortunately, still having problems getting PDF metadata to show consistently, even after optimize PDF/restart. I give up, at least for now...

I created a simple RTF file in MS Word. I then added the Title and Author metadata using calibre and converted the file to MOBI using calibre. Title and Author both show up okay on the Kindle.

I attached both files. I added no metadata directly to the RTF, but added it to the MOBI prior to converting.

Also to confirm, the Kindle cannot read native RTF. It has to be converted to MOBI.

EDIT: You will notice that the RTF file is several times larger than the MOBI. This is partly due to the nature of RTF, but it also has to do with MOBI not being as robust as far as formatting goes.

...

[KACartlidge]

Thanks for the test files; I'll try them tomorrow on my colleague's K3.

One issue with this though is that you are relying on Calibre to do a conversion.

My original post is dealing with the fact that Amazon state RTF is supported (whether natively or converted as it is sent) and yet the metadata is ignored, at least on files I tried so far. The fact that a third party application can retain the metadata as it creates mobi files ready for the Kindle is not really the issue - you are feeding the Kindle a mobi not an RTF so the result has no bearing on the Kindle's handling of RTF but rather on its handling of Calibre's mobi output.

Could you clarify your comment confirming that the Kindle cannot read RTF and requires a mobi conversion?

It is possible to pass an RTF directly to the Kindle account without converting into any other form. The Kindle sees it and shows it fine (minus metadata). It may well be that upon arrival we have a mobi internally, but the actual file sent to the Kindle is RTF not mobi, there is no Calibre involvement, no conversions. And the Kindle is fine with that (apart from the metadata of course).

Incidentally, directly sending the RTF you gave to the K3 will not help as the \info tag does not contain a \title entry - your Calibre conversion process is probably adding the Title to the mobi metadata.

[Ajax]

One issue with this though is that you are relying on Calibre to do a conversion.

You are relying on Amazon to do the conversions.

My original post is dealing with the fact that Amazon state RTF is supported (whether natively or converted as it is sent) and yet the metadata is ignored, at least on files I tried so far. The fact that a third party application can retain the metadata as it creates mobi files ready for the Kindle is not really the issue - you are feeding the Kindle a mobi not an RTF so the result has no bearing on the Kindle's handling of RTF but rather on its handling of Calibre's mobi output.


Could you clarify your comment confirming that the Kindle cannot read RTF and requires a mobi conversion?

If you hook your Kindle up to your computer and directly transfer an RTF file via USB into the documents folder it will not be visible, because RTF is not a supported file format.

It is possible to pass an RTF directly to the Kindle account without converting into any other form. The Kindle sees it and shows it fine (minus metadata). It may well be that upon arrival we have a mobi internally, but the actual file sent to the Kindle is RTF not mobi, there is no Calibre involvement, no conversions. And the Kindle is fine with that (apart from the metadata of course).

You are not passing it directly to the kindle, you are passing it through the Amazon conversion service. So your kindle never sees an RTF file.



The only possible way to get your files to be viewed on the Kindle is via conversion, whether that be done via Amazon's conversion service or via Calibre. No matter what you are not viewing an RTF on the Kindle. Yes, Amazon's conversion service accepts RTF but the Kindle itself does not.

[KACartlidge]

Originally Posted by Ajax

You are relying on Amazon to do the conversions.

Yes, I know. That's the point.

Amazon state RTF support, so how does one get Amazon's official methods of loading RTFs to fully support RTF metadata?


I do not care (and have accepted all along) that Amazon do a conversion to get it to the device. I do not care if the end result is a mobi. The only issue is the simple task of transferring an RTF to the Kindle, with no intervening third party software (like Calibre), and have the Kindle display it, regardless of the eventual format on the device, with title and author metadata.

I have a large collection of RTF files. They all have metadata understood by MS Word and the Sony PRS-505. I want to simply zip them up, send them over (kindle.com), and have the Kindle understand their title and author on arrival. No intervening step. No third party conversion. They state RTF support, so this should work - but doesn't. They arrive minus metadata.

I accept there are conversions that will retain the metadata. I like and use RTF. Amazon say RTF is supported. Therefore I would like to not have to do conversions with 3rd party software in advance of commencing the transfer.

[Madmanden]

Amazon's specs say:

Content Formats Supported:
Kindle (AZW), TXT, PDF, Audible (Audible Enhanced (AA, AAX)), MP3, unprotected MOBI, PRC natively;

HTML, DOC, JPEG, GIF, PNG, BMP through conversion.

I assume they forgot RTF under 'through conversion'. Either way they don't state native support of RTF, only via wireless conversion.

Originally Posted by KACartlidge

Yes, I know. That's the point.

Amazon state RTF support, so how does one get Amazon's official methods of loading RTFs to fully support RTF metadata?


I do not care (and have accepted all along) that Amazon do a conversion to get it to the device. I do not care if the end result is a mobi. The only issue is the simple task of transferring an RTF to the Kindle, with no intervening third party software (like Calibre), and have the Kindle display it, regardless of the eventual format on the device, with title and author metadata.

I have a large collection of RTF files. They all have metadata understood by MS Word and the Sony PRS-505. I want to simply zip them up, send them over (kindle.com), and have the Kindle understand their title and author on arrival. No intervening step. No third party conversion. They state RTF support, so this should work - but doesn't. They arrive minus metadata.

I accept there are conversions that will retain the metadata. I like and use RTF. Amazon say RTF is supported. Therefore I would like to not have to do conversions with 3rd party software in advance of commencing the transfer.

Just a thought, but using RTF on a Kindle through conversion to MOBI is a huge waste of formatting. Much of the formatting in a RTF file will be lost when converted to MOBI (or ePub if you have a Sony reader or a Nook). If you absolutely want to retain most or all of the formatting you need to use MS Word to convert the files to PDF.

If the formatting is not a huge issue, then I would use calibre to do the conversions to MOBI as calibre will typically do conversions a lot better than Amazon. Try it out. Add a RTF file you created into calibre and see if calibre correctly reads the metadata. If it does use calibre to do batch conversions. If calibre does not correctly read your RTF metadata, then you might have entered it incorrectly.

[KACartlidge]

Originally Posted by Madmanden

Either way they don't state native support of RTF, only via wireless conversion.

Sorry to repeat myself, as I actually am grateful for any input, but ... I know.

Virtually every post I have done in this thread has either said I understand the transfer involves a conversion or, more to the point, I don't care whether the transfer converts or not. My point is ... RTF to Kindle whether there is an implicit conversion or not drops metadata. Yes, I can use Calibre to take the RTF and create a MOBI which the Kindle accepts and keeps the metadata, but I was hoping to not use any third party conversion tool at all.

I do not care whether the Kindle transfer process means the resulting file on the Kindle has gone through a conversion, I just want to send it and get a file with metadata intact and with no third party (Calibre or otherwise) involved. If the Kindle supports RTF (even via conversion) then that should work.

[KACartlidge]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Just a thought, but using RTF on a Kindle through conversion to MOBI is a huge waste of formatting. Much of the formatting in a RTF file will be lost when converted to MOBI (or ePub if you have a Sony reader or a Nook). If you absolutely want to retain most or all of the formatting you need to use MS Word to convert the files to PDF.

If the formatting is not a huge issue, then I would use calibre to do the conversions to MOBI as calibre will typically do conversions a lot better than Amazon. Try it out. Add a RTF file you created into calibre and see if calibre correctly reads the metadata. If it does use calibre to do batch conversions. If calibre does not correctly read your RTF metadata, then you might have entered it incorrectly.

Jack,

Thanks for the advice. For a lot of my stuff that will work fine.

Calibre reads the metadata fine, as does Word and the Sony. There is in fact only one way to specify title and author in RTF files (the {\info} tag) so there is little scope for problems anyway.

Just to clarify:

• I do not want to convert to MOBI at all
• I do not want to do any conversion in fact
• I do not want to use third party software
• I want to send RTF files straight to the Kindle (@kindle.com is fine)
• Amazon state RTF support - even if via conversion during transfer
• I do not care if the file is no longer RTF when it arrives due to Amazon's actions
• I would like the metadata from the RTF I sent to show on the Kindle

To confirm:

• The RTF metadata is intact and correct by the spec
• MS Word, Sony PRS-505 and Calibre can see it

My question:

Am I missing something? Is there some action I need to take or some extra info I need to provide to get the metadata from the RTF to show on the Kindle (with it remaining an RTF until at least the moment the transfer commences)?

If not, I will have to do conversions. I would just really like to avoid it.

Thanks for any help.

[Black Wolf]

Be careful when sending documents to your kindle that need conversion. There is a fee involved for doing so. If you do this with a large number of books, it can add up to quite a fee. Your best bet is with calibre software. It is also the quickest way to send to your device.
1. install calibre
2. import library
3. go to preferences and add your kindle email addy. (use the @free.kindle.com to avoid 3g charges)
4. highlight all books you want to send
5. click connect/share ... email to
6. let it go, but keep the kindle on and connected to wifi. This will take quite a long time (5 min/book) but there will be no charges involved.

when sending to your device the @free.kindle.com goes only to your wifi, not 3G. This avoids 3G transfer charges, such as the $.99/MB here in canada.

Of course you can also just leave your kindle plugged into the USB and select send to device instead of email. Either way, it's free and auto converts the files to a format the kindle can read.

As for sending to your device without converting, extra software etc, just email the book as an attachment to your kindle address and you will be charged the $.15 to convert, plus the 3G charges (if not using @free.kindle.com) of $.15/MB or $.99/MB if you are outside the USA.

I hope this clears some things up.

Now for my question:
Does anyone know if there is a way to get the kindle to read the metadata to list by series? I hope I do not have to create collections for each series. I have a lot of books and this would be of GREAT use.

Thanks