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Old 04-11-2014, 11:46 AM   #136
HarryT
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Although I downloaded all of my Sony books months ago, I agree you shouldn't have to be OK with losing only a certain percentage of your books.

Surely no one would accept a publisher breaking into their home and removing only 10 percent of their paper books.
It's not the publisher's responsibility to keep your books safe for you for all eternity; it's YOUR responsibility. When you bought the book, did the Sony bookstore give you some kind of guarantee that your book would be stored for you forever?
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:12 PM   #137
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It's not the publisher's responsibility to keep your books safe for you for all eternity; it's YOUR responsibility. When you bought the book, did the Sony bookstore give you some kind of guarantee that your book would be stored for you forever?
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Now, to DRM. "Generally if you move from one device manufacturer to another you are going to lose your books locked into that store." Yes, and that's not right. You can tell me that's the way it is, that's the way I bought them so I should have known that. And sure, that's still all true.

That still doesn't make me happy that I chose to drink the Kool-Aid, or a feeling that now I know, eventually, I've thrown away that $50.00.
When I buy a paper book, it is generally assumed that I have access to the text of that book forever, so long as I take care of said book.

But now that you mention it, I do seriously wonder what Sony has to pay per year for storage of all eBooks they've published and access to D/L the text via the Reader software. The cost is non-zero, absolutely. But I suspect that in a maintenance state in whatever server farms Sony uses, it would be trivial compared to their annual revenue.

And edit to add... With my MP3 collection, I utterly have the ability to keep my collection around forever and so long as someone makes a player that can handle MP3 files I have access. (And I make sure that I have said collection backed up in multiple locations so I never lose the whole.) With DRMed eBooks, I have the ability to keep my collection around and accessible for only as long as the vendor exists.

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Old 04-11-2014, 03:29 PM   #138
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And edit to add... With my MP3 collection, I utterly have the ability to keep my collection around forever and so long as someone makes a player that can handle MP3 files I have access. (And I make sure that I have said collection backed up in multiple locations so I never lose the whole.) With DRMed eBooks, I have the ability to keep my collection around and accessible for only as long as the vendor exists.
You make a good argument above for getting acquainted with Apprentice Alf. Then you'd be able to enjoy the same type of access to your e-books as your mp3s. Well worth the time invested to learn how to do this and then be able to access your books on the device of your choice.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:11 PM   #139
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It's not the publisher's responsibility to keep your books safe for you for all eternity; it's YOUR responsibility. When you bought the book, did the Sony bookstore give you some kind of guarantee that your book would be stored for you forever?
Of course not, and that would be the reason why I verified I had everything six months ago and never went back to the site. I'm aware of my responsibilities.

I addressed the issue of the Sony store transition. I can understand, however, those who are frustrated with some of their books not being available at Kobo while also knowing the two stores aren't 100 percent compatible.

That's also the reason I side with the apprentices.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:30 PM   #140
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It's not the publisher's responsibility to keep your books safe for you for all eternity; it's YOUR responsibility. When you bought the book, did the Sony bookstore give you some kind of guarantee that your book would be stored for you forever?
Speaking as a proud apprentice here...

DRM implies that the distributor will be there for as long as they insert themselves between me and what I have purchased from them.

When I buy a pbook, I have full control over the book, and can continue to possess it for as long as I can continue to preserve its form. When I buy an ebook, I am dependent on the vendor giving me permission each time I want to read. But we all know this already.

My point is: since the vendor has sold me the book, but expects me to go to his "house" to read it, (and, weirdly, I agreed to this ridiculous deal,) the vendor has an obligation to let me in so I can read my book -- whenever I damn well want! This obligation doesn't go away just because the vendor feels like withdrawing from the market.

Granted, I have the means to "steal" my property back. But that isn't a vindication of what Sony is doing...

Last edited by eschwartz; 04-11-2014 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:44 PM   #141
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It's not the publisher's responsibility to keep your books safe for you for all eternity; it's YOUR responsibility. When you bought the book, did the Sony bookstore give you some kind of guarantee that your book would be stored for you forever?
It is illegal to remove DRM. As such, it is the publisher's responsibility to keep your books safe.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:16 PM   #142
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My point is: since the vendor has sold me the book, but expects me to go to his "house" to read it, (and, weirdly, I agreed to this ridiculous deal,) the vendor has an obligation to let me in so I can read my book -- whenever I damn well want!
Great analogy!

*visions of someone trying to kick someone's front door down to get in and read a book...**
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:58 PM   #143
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It is illegal to remove DRM. As such, it is the publisher's responsibility to keep your books safe.
Well that depends entirely on where one lives, so your generalisation is false.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:46 PM   #144
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It is illegal to remove DRM. As such, it is the publisher's responsibility to keep your books safe.
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Well that depends entirely on where one lives, so your generalisation is false.
Since it is the Sony U.S. store closing being discussed in this thread and it is illegal in the U.S., I think Rizla is making a fair point on this.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:01 AM   #145
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Speaking as a proud apprentice here...

DRM implies that the distributor will be there for as long as they insert themselves between me and what I have purchased from them.

When I buy a pbook, I have full control over the book, and can continue to possess it for as long as I can continue to preserve its form. When I buy an ebook, I am dependent on the vendor giving me permission each time I want to read. But we all know this already.

My point is: since the vendor has sold me the book, but expects me to go to his "house" to read it, (and, weirdly, I agreed to this ridiculous deal,) the vendor has an obligation to let me in so I can read my book -- whenever I damn well want! This obligation doesn't go away just because the vendor feels like withdrawing from the market.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but with Adobe DRM (which Sony use), you don't have to re-download the book every time you want to transfer it to a different device. Once it's in the ADE library on your PC, you can copy it to any ADE device that's registered to your account.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:05 AM   #146
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First let me say I hate DRM and avoid it whenever possible. That said Sony sold me many books and they gave me the means to read those books. Since they use Adobe DRM there are many applications and devices that will read these books. Sony leaving the market does not change anything.

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And edit to add... With my MP3 collection, I utterly have the ability to keep my collection around forever and so long as someone makes a player that can handle MP3 files I have access.
Exactly the same for your books. As long as there is a reader that will open your books, you can read them forever.

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With DRMed eBooks, I have the ability to keep my collection around and accessible for only as long as the vendor exists.
The vendor does not need to exist for you to access your books, just software that will open your book. Did Sony take their software back?

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When I buy a pbook, I have full control over the book, and can continue to possess it for as long as I can continue to preserve its form. When I buy an ebook, I am dependent on the vendor giving me permission each time I want to read. But we all know this already.
The vendor doesn't have to give you permission each time. But we all know this already.

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My point is: since the vendor has sold me the book, but expects me to go to his "house" to read it, (and, weirdly, I agreed to this ridiculous deal,) the vendor has an obligation to let me in so I can read my book -- whenever I damn well want! This obligation doesn't go away just because the vendor feels like withdrawing from the market.
Sony pulling out of the market has no affect on my ability to read books that I bought from them.

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Granted, I have the means to "steal" my property back. But that isn't a vindication of what Sony is doing...
Vindication? Sony is simply choosing not to sell ebooks anymore. You don't need to steal anything. Sony has not blocked anyone from reading the books that they purchased.

Last edited by DoctorOhh; 04-12-2014 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 04-12-2014, 12:22 PM   #147
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@LaughingVulcan, DRM removal is quite easy. Just google "apprentice alf", download The Tools, and follow the (simple, clear) directions
True. Thank you.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:12 PM   #148
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@HarryT, @DoctorOhh,

All of that only lasts until you switch computers, at which point it is rather difficult to transfer your ADE authentication. (You can re-authenticate with the same ID, but where do you redownload your books from?) And then you are limited to the ereader(s) the book is currently on. Which will also eventually break/stop working/get replaced. I guess you can transfer the books, if you still have them accessible somewhere.

Which is really helpful for the people who don't back up their books. And, coincidentally, these are the people who probably didn't Alf them (which gets around the whole probem altogether).

I believe Sony has a responsibility to ensure that your content remains accessible once you purchase it. That guarantee is gone once they close down and fail to transfer all their titles over to a new content server!!

Last edited by eschwartz; 04-13-2014 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:32 PM   #149
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You don't need to redownload your books. You just copy the EPUB files over to your new computer which has been authorized to the same ADE account. No big deal.

Sony has handled the transition very well. They found a partner to transfer your account to. They kept alive your Sony account after the bookstore closed to give you ample time to download your books. They are updating their Sony software to link to Kobo as well as updating the ereader firmware. They send many emails communicating the issue. Other bookstores have just simply closed.
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Old 04-13-2014, 02:20 AM   #150
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You don't need to redownload your books. You just copy the EPUB files over to your new computer which has been authorized to the same ADE account. No big deal.
I'm not used to ADE since I much prefer Amazon and think ADE is slow clumsy annoying and generally a horrible experience. Forgot you can do that.

But this doesn't help if you only had it on your computer, say for example you aren't one of those people who keeps their entire library on their device? When their computer breaks, th bok is gone!

... and I guess that is no longer a problem of the DRM, which was a big part of my argument.

Quote:
Sony has handled the transition very well. They found a partner to transfer your account to. They kept alive your Sony account after the bookstore closed to give you ample time to download your books. They are updating their Sony software to link to Kobo as well as updating the ereader firmware. They send many emails communicating the issue. Other bookstores have just simply closed.
Except for the part where some books are "incompatible".

Last edited by eschwartz; 04-13-2014 at 02:22 AM.
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