Do you pirate books and why?

[Pulpmeister]

Yes, I've seen that notice in many paperbacks. It is of very doubtful legality I think. Many publishers do not take unsold "returns" as it is too costly to ship the books back, so the retailers just strip off the covers and return them, tossing the rest in the dumpster.

Such books have been abandoned by both the publisher and retailer. They are certainly not stolen if you rescue them from the dumpster. Disclaimer: I don't have any, because I like books with covers.

The same applies I think in some places to daily newspapers, where the retailer just tears off the mastheads, and tosses the rest in the skip out back (or maybe gives them to the fish and chip shop).

The "returns" thing is a bit of a racket, really. What other wholesale business takes back its unsold goods? Does BMW take back any unsold last-year models and run them through the crusher? Nope: the dealer flogs them off at a discount and takes it on the chin. Why not the same with books? Beats me.

[Katsunami]

Many expensive products such as cars are put into the showroom by the manufacturer. The dealer only pays the price after the car is sold. If it's an older model, the dealer can arrange to have a discount (partly) subtracted from the price he has to pay. That is why many dealers can provide a 10-15% discount even on newer cars; the manufacturer carries part or even all of the cost. At least, it's like this in the Netherlands, and it of course applies only to very expensive products.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Pulpmeister

Yes, I've seen that notice in many paperbacks. It is of very doubtful legality I think.

Well, it does say "The sale of this book without its cover is unauthorized."... Leaves place for arguing that giving them away for free is not forbidden.

Where I live, though, even trash in the bin is still the property of the person who's thrown it away until it has been collected (and then it belongs to the garbage collecting company, I believe).

So rescuing something out of the trash would be considered theft... People have been sued for stealing food out of supermarket garbage containers...

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Where I live, though, even trash in the bin is still the property of the person who's thrown it away until it has been collected (and then it belongs to the garbage collecting company, I believe). . . . People have been sued for stealing food out of supermarket garbage containers. . . .

That seems a particularly cruel and petty interpretation of the law. Difficult enough to feed the starving people of the world without denying them access to food that has been discarded and which no one else wants.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

That seems a particularly cruel and petty interpretation of the law. Difficult enough to feed the starving people of the world without denying them access to food that has been discarded and which no one else wants.

It's certainly true in UK law that items in your rubbish bin remain your property until the bin is emptied, at which point ownership is transferred to the local council (or their refuse-disposal contractors). People have been prosecuted for taking items from domestic rubbish bins.

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's certainly true in UK law that items in your rubbish bin remain your property until the bin is emptied, at which point ownership is transferred to the local council (or their refuse-disposal contractors). People have been prosecuted for taking items from domestic rubbish bins.

i worked in a conveinence store and was told that i would be fired if i ate anything (i.e. day old donuts) even if it were on its way to the garbage can. even if it were placed in the garbage can and somebody then picked it out and ate it it was still considered theft.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

That last notice is in all my Del Rey books.

Don't worry, I won't even consider a book damaged as such *for free*, let alone buy it, or it has to be a really, really rare and unobtainable story.

As a matter of fact, I have a handful of old paperbacks I *bought* that way, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. There was a (US) Woolworths in the strip mall behind the University campus and they would from time to time do "Five-and-dime" sidewalk sales of all sorts of stuff, including bins of coverless paperbacks for 5 cents.
Being of the omnivorous reader persuasion I had pretty much strip-mined the campus library my first semester so I had no trouble buying a few that caught my eye. None had that particular notice on them but I suspect I probably wouldn't have turned them in. As is, the chain folded a couple years later...
Different times.

After graduation, I used to frequent a local used-paperback place for content; not to sell but to buy. I don't divest books, it just goes against my nature. Found a fair amount of ACE Doubles that way, long after they became legend.

Nowadays, ebooks let me be a bit picky in what I buy thanks to the freebies and cheapies that are readily available (to say nothing of the TBR accumulation in the closet) so I don't actively troll for bargains (more time for reading!) but I won't turn my nose up at anything I find for (legal) sale new or used.

As long as the book is readable, I'm not too proud to grab it.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

i worked in a conveinence store and was told that i would be fired if i ate anything (i.e. day old donuts) even if it were on its way to the garbage can. even if it were placed in the garbage can and somebody then picked it out and ate it it was still considered theft.

Again: That seems wasteful and cruel. What bakery is likely to reclaim its expired pastries, and how many homeless beggars might not go hungry if the pastries were offered to them instead? It isn't as if the garbage collectors had anything to gain from transporting the pastries to some packed landfill, or that the recycling machine of the human body is inefficient.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Again: That seems wasteful and cruel.

It might be necessary as self-defense. We live in a litigious age and old food is generally considered unsafe. Giving it away could lead to somebody sickening and...
Such are the times.

A lot of restaurants donate "leftovers" (cooked but not ordered/served) to food banks and shelters but that is fresh food. Old, expired food? Too risky.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It might be necessary as self-defense. We live in a litigious age and old food is generally considered unsafe. Giving it away could lead to somebody sickening and...
Such are the times.

A lot of restaurants donate "leftovers" (cooked but not ordered/served) to food banks and shelters but that is fresh food. Old, expired food? Too risky.

I suspect it usually has to do with forcing the garbage pickers to buy something rather than just taking the discards. I can't imagine anyone getting sued for putting old food in the garbage (what else would you do with it?). Deliberately poisoning the old food would be a different matter.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by Pulpmeister

Yes, I've seen that notice in many paperbacks. It is of very doubtful legality I think. Many publishers do not take unsold "returns" as it is too costly to ship the books back, so the retailers just strip off the covers and return them, tossing the rest in the dumpster.

Such books have been abandoned by both the publisher and retailer. They are certainly not stolen if you rescue them from the dumpster. Disclaimer: I don't have any, because I like books with covers.

The same applies I think in some places to daily newspapers, where the retailer just tears off the mastheads, and tosses the rest in the skip out back (or maybe gives them to the fish and chip shop).

The "returns" thing is a bit of a racket, really. What other wholesale business takes back its unsold goods? Does BMW take back any unsold last-year models and run them through the crusher? Nope: the dealer flogs them off at a discount and takes it on the chin. Why not the same with books? Beats me.

Mass market paperback business model is identical to the magazine model--product is to be on the shelf for a limited period of time and then is either all sold or the remainders (or covers) returned. They are treated as something that *expires* after a given date.

I don't know the true legality of rescuing coverless paperbacks, but from what my friends in the bookstore said, the bookstore was responsible for ensuring that the books made it to the dumpster. The fact that employees would occasionally rescue books was never officially acknowledged (& was probably concealed from the employer, whether the employer really knew or not is arguable).

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

That seems wasteful and cruel.

I think so, too. But then again, in a world where you can sue someone in whose house you tried to break in through the garage and got locked in - and win...

Lots of stores donate the food to food banks or the like. But other food gets thrown away, for example a bag of oranges because one or two of them were turned to pulp by accident. You could remove those and donate the ones that are still good. But it seems that this is too much of a hassle for lots of people (or rather companies). It's sad, really...

Most of the ones donating food are not big chain stores but small (family) business...

[GlenBarrington]

Originally Posted by rkomar

I suspect it usually has to do with forcing the garbage pickers to buy something rather than just taking the discards. I can't imagine anyone getting sued for putting old food in the garbage (what else would you do with it?). Deliberately poisoning the old food would be a different matter.

The old 'you should have known I was gonna eat that' ploy would probably kick in. Do not confuse common sense with what it is that lawyers do. I once served on a jury late 1990's where a small men's store was sued by an old lady (actually the old lady's lawyer nephew) for not shoveling the snow from their Alley even though the front Customer entrance was free of snow.

The old lady's nephew dropped her off in the alley for some strange reason so she could enter the store and pick something up for her husband. And dof course she fell. It seems that in the 1930's the alley door was open to customers but was locked shut in the 1940's.

The old lady's nephwe argued that even though the door hadn't been used in 40 years, the store(which had changed hands a couple of times, and the manager was around 24 YO) should have known that old people would remember it being open at one time and should have taken steps to insure that a long term non functional entrance was safe.

Me and the old Republican farmers on the jury didn't give her a dime. But you can't trust that juries will have ANY common sense any more.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Joykins

I don't know the true legality of rescuing coverless paperbacks, but from what my friends in the bookstore said, the bookstore was responsible for ensuring that the books made it to the dumpster. The fact that employees would occasionally rescue books was never officially acknowledged (& was probably concealed from the employer, whether the employer really knew or not is arguable).

Morally it seems to be exactly like making and electronic copy from somebody that do not have the right to distribute the book.

So all arguments that people propose like "lost income" and so on should be applicable to this situation also.

[Quake1028]

No. Up until around 6 months ago, I used to, but I stopped and deleted everything that was ill gotten from my libraries. I recently did the same with music as well.