Makes me glad my reader is not connected

Originally Posted by HarryT

I honestly don't think you have a leg to stand on here.

Someone uploaded material which they did not have the right to distribute. Amazon removed that specific file from the machines which their database told them that it had been sent to, and refunded the customers' money in full. Amazon routines remove content from Kindles - this is well-known. Eg, they remove all subscription content that's older than a certain age.

What's the problem? Nobody's suffered any financial loss. If you want to "blame" someone, blame the people who uploaded the illegal content originally.

Legally? Perhaps not. Morally? Positively, absolutely.

Problems?
1. An author changed his mind about the ebook format so Amazon removes the books from your possession without your consent while you were reading it. You don't see a problem?
2. Furthermore, Amazon can close accounts, delete your content and prevent further downloads making the Kindle useless. Will they refund your Kindle purchase too?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by akira28

Problems?
1. An author changed his mind about the ebook format so Amazon removes the books from your possession without your consent while you were reading it. You don't see a problem?

An author did not "change his mind". This was illegal material, pure and simple. Amazon were absolutely right to remove it. Had they not done so, the customer would have been left with illegal material on their Kindle. You cannot believe that is right, surely?

[chaznsc]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I honestly don't think you have a leg to stand on here.

Someone uploaded material which they did not have the right to distribute. Amazon removed that specific file from the machines which their database told them that it had been sent to, and refunded the customers' money in full. Amazon routines remove content from Kindles - this is well-known. Eg, they remove all subscription content that's older than a certain age.

What's the problem? Nobody's suffered any financial loss. If you want to "blame" someone, blame the people who uploaded the illegal content originally.

Great comment. And Amazon didnt do anything but remove the book on the "library" at their end. Your Kindle did the dirty work LOL.

Originally Posted by HarryT

An author did not "change his mind". This was illegal material, pure and simple. Amazon were absolutely right to remove it. Had they not done so, the customer would have been left with illegal material on their Kindle. You cannot believe that is right, surely?

The point is that Amazon can delete any content for any reason without the users consent.

[chaznsc]

Read the Amazon user agreement. They retain sole rights to the Kindle.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200144530

Originally Posted by chaznsc

Read the Amazon user agreement. They retain sole rights to the Kindle.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200144530

But the Kindle itself is a sale not a lease:

"No Illegal Use and Reservation of Rights. You may not use the Device, the Service or the Digital Content for any illegal purpose. You acknowledge that the sale of the Device to you does not transfer to you title to or ownership of any intellectual property rights of Amazon or its suppliers. All of the Software is licensed, not sold, and such license is non-exclusive."

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by akira28

The point is that Amazon can delete any content for any reason without the users consent.

But do you think that Amazon were right to remove the content under these specific circumstances? I do, because otherwise Amazon would have knowingly left illegal content on those machines, and that's plainly not the right thing to do.

Amazon routinely delete content from Kindles. Everybody who buys a Kindle knows this - or does if they bother to read their user agreement. You sound as though it's a big surprise. It really isn't, you know.

[chaznsc]

Originally Posted by akira28

But the Kindle itself is a sale not a lease:

"No Illegal Use and Reservation of Rights. You may not use the Device, the Service or the Digital Content for any illegal purpose. You acknowledge that the sale of the Device to you does not transfer to you title to or ownership of any intellectual property rights of Amazon or its suppliers. All of the Software is licensed, not sold, and such license is non-exclusive."

I think amazon removing illegal content from the library is completely legal. As I mentioned earlier, the Kindle makes the transaction with the server, not Amazon.

Regardless, this is a free country, you are welcome to file a lawsuit to keep illegal content. And remember, monies were returned. In this instance, Amazon was protecting YOU from copyright infringement.

[mtravellerh]

Ijust found this:

Amazon Says It Will Stop Deleting Kindle Books

Amazon says that that the books in question were added to its catalog using the company's self-service platform by a third-party who did not have the rights to the books. And it says it will no longer delete books in this manner.

[HarryT]

That's a big mistake on Amazon's part, IMHO. It leaves them wide open (and justifyably so) to the accusation of contributing to copyright infringement. And what about the customer's liability if Amazon knowingly leaving illegal material on their device?

[carld]

Originally Posted by mtravellerh

Ijust found this:

Amazon Says It Will Stop Deleting Kindle Books

I don't agree with that. If I were the author of a book that was being pirated and distributed through Amazon's store I'd be well within my rights to demand that the illegal copies be deleted especially since I knew Amazon could do it.

Carl

Originally Posted by HarryT

But do you think that Amazon were right to remove the content under these specific circumstances? I do, because otherwise Amazon would have knowingly left illegal content on those machines, and that's plainly not the right thing to do.

Harry, I am not a lawyer so I can not say if it was in their right. But the way Amazon is approaching this is all wrong from a customer's view. Had they contacted each purchaser, explained the situation first, then perhaps this situation would not have garnered the attention it has now.

Amazon routinely delete content from Kindles. Everybody who buys a Kindle knows this - or does if they bother to read their user agreement. You sound as though it's a big surprise. It really isn't, you know.

It is not a big surprise that people do not read UA's (or ignore them). Look at all the people who use Facebook and have given all rights away.

Amazon's absolute control without any user consideration is another reason why I would never purchase a Kindle.

Originally Posted by chaznsc

Regardless, this is a free country, you are welcome to file a lawsuit to keep illegal content. And remember, monies were returned. In this instance, Amazon was protecting YOU from copyright infringement.

No, that is not correct. They were protecting themselves from distributing content without the right to do so.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by akira28

No, that is not correct. They were protecting themselves from distributing content without the right to do so.

I would question that they actually were protecting themselves. All they needed to do for self protection was to remove the item from their estore. What they were doing was setting a precedent - that your Kindle is really their property and therefore they can do with it as they wish. They are still liable for the illegal sales just as a paper book store would be. In fact, it could be argued that they were guilty of receiving (and then selling) stolen property. The fact that they did not know that the property was stolen is immaterial. They had already committed the illegal act.

If a store had improperly sold a hard copy of a book to you and had more copies on their shelves, I doubt that you would grant them the right to enter your library, take the book back and leave cash equivalent to the book's purchase price.

There is a very important concept here & that is where does the store's right/obligation end and yours begin. Amazon is saying that they own those rights and that you do not. If they are allowed to "get away" with this (theft) then we each will have lost a little more of our personal freedoms.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by slayda

There is a very important concept here & that is where does the store's right/obligation end and yours begin. Amazon is saying that they own those rights and that you do not. If they are allowed to "get away" with this (theft) then we each will have lost a little more of our personal freedoms.

So would you prefer that Amazon knowingly left illegal content on your Kindle, thus leaving you open to a charge of copyright infringement? As you say yourself, the fact that you did not know the material to be infringing is irrelevent.