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Old 12-19-2013, 11:08 AM   #136
Doitsu
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Danke sehr Doitsu, das ist etwas ganz neues für mich.
Du kennst aber sicher ähnliche Konstruktionen wie:

Aber es waren ihrer nicht allzu viele mehr .... (Fontane: Tritt)
Es waren ihrer [der weisen Frauen] dreizehn in seinem [des Königs] Reiche ... (Grimm: Dornröschen)

Diese Konstruktionen werden in Deutsch, wenn überhaupt, nur noch ironisch bzw. poetisierend verwendet.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:59 AM   #137
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Effi Briest Seite 153

sie ihrerseits sei aber ganz entgegengesetzter Ansicht, trotzdem sie persönlich des großen Vorzugs genieße, gar nichts zu glauben.

warum "des großen Vorzugs"?
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:11 PM   #138
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sie ihrerseits sei aber ganz entgegengesetzter Ansicht, trotzdem sie persönlich des großen Vorzugs genieße, gar nichts zu glauben.

warum "des großen Vorzugs"?
Wegen "genießen", das früher mit dem Genitiv gebraucht wurde. Weitere Beispiele sind hier.

Das ist genauso "unlogisch" wie "er ging seines Weges" in dem folgenden Satz aus Grimms Märchen "Der wunderliche Spielmann":
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"Warte da so lange, bis ich wiederkomme", sagte der Spielmann und ging seines Weges.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:11 PM   #139
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Seite 174

Effi stand am Fenster und sah neugierig auf die sonderbar feierliche Szene, die sich drüben abspielte. Die zum Begräbnis von Berlin her Eingetroffenen waren zwei Neffen mit ihren Frauen, alle gegen Vierzig, etwas mehr oder weniger, und von beneidenswert gesunder Gesichtsfarbe. Die Neffen, in gutsitzenden Fracks, konnten passieren, und die nüchterne Geschäftsmäßigkeit, die sich in ihrem gesamten Tun ausdrückte, war im Grunde mehr kleidsam als störend.

Wie versteht man "passieren" in diesem Satz?
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:15 AM   #140
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Ich denke, Effi bewertet das Aussehen der Neffen und findet es akzeptabel. In modernem Deutsch könnte man vielleicht sagen: "Die Neffen ... konnte man durchgehen lassen."

Siehe Bedeutung 3) im Grimmschen Wörterbuch oder 2)b)α) im Adelung.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:10 AM   #141
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Und wenn er uns dann in große Aufregung versetzt und manchen auch wohl geängstigt hatte, dann war es mit einem Male wieder, als habe er sich über alle die Leichtgläubigen bloß mokieren wollen.

Warum "manchen", nicht "manche" hier?
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:20 AM   #142
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Maskulinum Singular. Zu Fontanes Zeiten waren noch alle Menschen männlich.
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:23 AM   #143
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Sicher, Akkusativ Maskulinum Singular. Und auch sonst hat Double, wie immer, Recht. -
Entscheidend ist aber, dass hier der Plural (manche) durch Verweis auf die gesamte Gattung in der Singularform (manchen) ersetzt werden kann.
"Der Engländer trinkt gern Tee." = "Die Engländer ..."
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:20 AM   #144
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Maskulinum Singular. Zu Fontanes Zeiten waren noch alle Menschen männlich.
Der Mensch war und ist natürlich männlich in Deutsch und man ist von Mann abgeleitet, aber außer manchen (= manch einen) gibt es natürlich auch noch die feminine Forme manche (= manch eine), die aber in dem angefragten Satz nicht passen würde.

Die Pluralform manche würde theoretisch auch passen, insofern ist Spinnis Frage durchaus berechtigt.
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:13 AM   #145
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Die Pluralform manche würde theoretisch auch passen, insofern ist Spinnis Frage durchaus berechtigt.
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Entscheidend ist aber, dass hier der Plural (manche) durch Verweis auf die gesamte Gattung in der Singularform (manchen) ersetzt werden kann.
"Der Engländer trinkt gern Tee." = "Die Engländer ..."
Stimmt, da habt ihr beide völlig recht - den Hinweis hatte ich bei meiner flapsig dahingewitzelten Antwort übersehen.

Der Chinese postet gerne niedliche Pandabilder in Internetforen.
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:31 AM   #146
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So flapsig fand ich deine Antwort gar nicht, da die Pluralform elegant beide Geschlechter umfasst hätte. Den absurden Unterstrich hatte man zu der Zeit ja zum Glück noch nicht erfunden.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:38 AM   #147
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Aber "der Chinese" in diesem Buch hat eine negative Konnotation.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:09 AM   #148
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Oh, ich habe gar nicht mehr dran gedacht, dass es einen gibt in Effi Briest. Vielleicht wäre er netter gewesen, wenn er auch niedliche Pandas gepostet hätte.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:15 AM   #149
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Er ist ein Gespenst.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:18 AM   #150
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Locker bleiben, Spinni:

Die meisten Gespenster in der Literatur sind schließlich keine Chinesen.
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