Authors Group Urges Opposition to E-Book Settlement

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Since my husband got an ereader and showed it around to the guys in his model club, several of them have gotten ereaders and started reading. They'd been effectively non-readers for decades . . .

Most of them are happy with Gutenberg's collection

This club's members are quite unusual in the flexibility of their taste. And since there are lots of current 99 cent fiction books they are passing over in favor of the classics, I think publishers would be wasting their time to seek their business.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by stonetools

My experience is that people either like to read, or they don't-and if they like to read, they'll buy books .

Here I may agree more with Elfwreck.

My experience is more that if people like to collect books, they'll buy books.

When I'm done reading an eBook, even if I paid for it, I delete it. This mentality may be part of the reason I mostly stick to libraries.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I used to think that. Since my husband got an ereader and showed it around to the guys in his model club, several of them have gotten ereaders and started reading. They'd been effectively non-readers for decades--but now that "book" didn't mean "carry around heavy block paper" or "carry one flimsy block of paper and hope that when you're in the mood to read, it's the right genre," they've rediscovered reading.

Most of them are happy with Gutenberg's collection; they each have a list of classics they'd always intended to read and never gotten around to, and are delighted to find that they're available for free and can be carried in their pockets.

Also, the notion that "if they like to read, they'll buy books" assumes that books are within their budget. The BPHs disdain any customers whose book budgets are less than $10/month--and miss out on the fact that there are millions of those people. (A lot of those are minors. Their transition into the ebook market is bumpy; they have a choice of "adult-controlled reading" or "random freebies" or "bootleg books." Those who like reading don't tend to settle for the adult-control requirements, and whichever of the other options they choose, the BPHs have lost a chance to build connections with a future customer.)

Your observations would have merit-save for the fact that the bestseller's lists are dominated by just those "BPH" books. BPH could just as easily stand for "Bestselling Publishing Houses".
Those bestsellers do in fact end up selling for under $10 per book, eventually. And you can borrow print versions of those bestsellers from the library for free.
Even when I was a down and out student who couldn't afford a PC, ebook reader, or a monthly data plan, I had no problem finding books to read. That's what libraries, used bookstores, book sales, and the discount piles at the bookstores are for. I was able to find those books because I wanted to read, not because someone showed me the latest shiny gadget. I think that's how most readers start.And I would continue to read even if electricity vanished from the Earth tomorrow a la the EMBERVERSE.

You should understand that the BPHs sell tons of ebooks. You may not think that BPHs are sufficiently welcoming to ebooks, but the plain fact is that 24 of the first 25 places ( and 34 of 35) on the NYT ebook bestseller lists are held by BPH books. They are doing SOMETHING right.

NYT LIST

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Even when I was a down and out student who couldn't afford a PC, ebook reader, or a monthly data plan, I had no problem finding books to read. That's what libraries, used bookstores, book sales, and the discount piles at the bookstores are for.

And those whose budgets are still in that area, are pushed away from the ebook markets.

I was able to find those books because I wanted to read, not because someone showed me the latest shiny gadget. I think that's how most readers start.

It's how they used to start. With fewer bookstores, fewer used bookstores, and fewer libraries--both my children attend schools with no libraries--many potential new readers will discover a love of reading on screens, or not at all.

You should understand that the BPHs sell tons of ebooks. You may not think that BPHs are sufficiently welcoming to ebooks, but the plain fact is that 24 of the first 25 places ( and 34 of 35) on the NYT ebook bestseller lists are held by BPH books. They are doing SOMETHING right.

Yes, they're finding their way onto a list geared to showcase their works. Author self-pub books aren't even eligible for that list.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Here I may agree more with Elfwreck.

My experience is more that if people like to collect books, they'll buy books.

When I'm done reading an eBook, even if I paid for it, I delete it. This mentality may be part of the reason I mostly stick to libraries.

I also agree with Elfwreck except for the cost of books part.

I've noticed that people will find a way to do or get what they want. They don't let costs stop them.

If they love to read, they will obtain books and read.
If they love to play golf, they will do so.
If they love to smoke, they will find the $10/day for cigarettes and smoke.
If a family wants to go to the beach, they arrive after 4pm when it's free.

I remember a girl in school who prostituted herself to earn the money to buy a Gucci handbag. A person who greatly desires something will find the means.

[stonetools]

And those whose budgets are still in that area, are pushed away from the ebook markets.

If you can't afford an ebook reading device, you're not in the ebook market. QED.
Generally, if you can afford a PC, Internet access and one or two ebook reading devices, you should be able to afford ebooks.

Yes, they're finding their way onto a list geared to showcase their works. Author self-pub books aren't even eligible for that list.

Even so, BPHs do sell huge numbers of ebooks. I have yet to see a list that was was not dominated by BPH books.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

If you can't afford an ebook reading device, you're not in the ebook market. QED.
Generally, if you can afford a PC, Internet access and one or two ebook reading devices, you should be able to afford ebooks.

You sound like the people who say "if you can afford a car and insurance for it, you can you afford to drive 60 miles to a minimum-wage job." Being able to afford the container doesn't automatically bring the money to fill it up as often as would be useful.

I can afford a PC, internet access, and a reading device. Two, even. I cannot possibly afford to buy every word I intend to read on them. I count on a *lot* of free reading material; if it didn't exist, I wouldn't have bought an ereader.

Of course, the other side of that is that I won't be buying mainstream bestsellers, and since switching from print to e, I don't read them secondhand either. Which means I don't discover new mainstream authors I like; my reading sticks to fanfic and indie authors. Shrug. If I were in any danger of running out of things to read, I might worry about that; as it stands, it doesn't matter to me that I've never read, and am never likely to read, anything by Jasper Fforde or Audrey Niffenegger. I used to enjoy Stephen King's works; I don't know if I'd care for his newer works because they're not in formats I buy.

I'm also raising two avid readers who are oblivious to bestseller lists. People concerned about the future of publishing should be paying attention to what the 15-20 year-old crowd is reading and what they're buying when they have money.

Even so, BPHs do sell huge numbers of ebooks. I have yet to see a list that was was not dominated by BPH books.

How shocking--an industry with a hundred years of marketing and household placement beats an industry that's barely 10 years old with no publication standards.

Before Amazon changed their popularity rankings, indie books were about 30% of the top-100 lists. They decided to change their algorithm to weight the ranking by price of the ebook, rather than just counting numbers of sales.

[spindlegirl]

I agree with Elfwreck above, Yes, I was able to scrape together the money on birthday and christmas to get e-readers (my husband now has the former one I had). But I was counting on the reader to "pay for itself" via all the free material I am able to download. (Gutenberg, MR, the library, feedbooks, Smashwords, etc).

Much like my digital camera pays for itself in that I don't have to buy and process film, and I can afford to snap all kinds of crappy photos and then delete them if I don't like them. I use my e-reader the same way, download the cheap/free stuff, use library loans.

It's not a contradiction in terms to own a computer/e-reader etc, and have a modest budget to "feed" these devices.

[andreabc]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I have yet to see a list that was was not dominated by BPH books.

Check out the bestsellers list on Amazon España, it's dominated by the 1€ books...

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Before Amazon changed their popularity rankings, indie books were about 30% of the top-100 lists. They decided to change their algorithm to weight the ranking by price of the ebook, rather than just counting numbers of sales.

There's the popularity list (which was recently modified) and there's the bestsellers list (the top-100), they aren't the same...

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

I agree with Elfwreck above, Yes, I was able to scrape together the money on birthday and christmas to get e-readers (my husband now has the former one I had). But I was counting on the reader to "pay for itself" via all the free material I am able to download. (Gutenberg, MR, the library, feedbooks, Smashwords, etc).

Much like my digital camera pays for itself in that I don't have to buy and process film, and I can afford to snap all kinds of crappy photos and then delete them if I don't like them. I use my e-reader the same way, download the cheap/free stuff, use library loans.

It's not a contradiction in terms to own a computer/e-reader etc, and have a modest budget to "feed" these devices.

In follow up to this, musician and copyright defender David Lowery posted this in the middle of an epic rant on musician's rights:

The existential questions that your generation gets to answer are these:

Why do we value the network and hardware that delivers music but not the music itself?

Why are we willing to pay for computers, iPods, smartphones, data plans, and high speed internet access but not the music itself?

Why do we gladly give our money to some of the largest richest corporations in the world but not the companies and individuals who create and sell music?

This is a bit of hyperbole to emphasize the point. But it’s as if:

Networks: Giant mega corporations. Cool! have some money!

Hardware: Giant mega corporations. Cool! have some money!

Artists: 99.9 % lower middle class. Screw you, you greedy bastards!

Congratulations, your generation is the first generation in history to rebel by unsticking it to the man and instead sticking it to the weirdo freak musicians!

LINK

Substitute" authors" for "ebooks" and you pretty much get the same attitude here: we'll pay real money to Sony, Apple, Samsung, and Comcast, but authors? No money for you. Beyond the budget.

[spindlegirl]

................

[cjr72]

The existential questions that your generation gets to answer are these:

Why do we value the network and hardware that delivers music but not the music itself?

Why are we willing to pay for computers, iPods, smartphones, data plans, and high speed internet access but not the music itself?

Why do we gladly give our money to some of the largest richest corporations in the world but not the companies and individuals who create and sell music?

This is a bit of hyperbole to emphasize the point. But it’s as if:

Networks: Giant mega corporations. Cool! have some money!

Hardware: Giant mega corporations. Cool! have some money!

Artists: 99.9 % lower middle class. Screw you, you greedy bastards!

Congratulations, your generation is the first generation in history to rebel by unsticking it to the man and instead sticking it to the weirdo freak musicians!

LOL... And really I did laugh out loud to that.

Artists: 99.9 % lower middle class. Screw you, you greedy bastards!

So is he arguing that tech companies in comparison don't employ the middle class?

Congratulations, your generation is the first generation in history to rebel by unsticking it to the man and instead sticking it to the weirdo freak musicians!

Am I wrong to think that Warner and Universal etc are also corporations or are they non-profit hippie collectives of some sort?

The internet and connected devices does much more for me than that CD with two good tracks on it collecting dust in the corner, excuse me for adjusting my budget in light of that.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Substitute" authors" for "ebooks" and you pretty much get the same attitude here: we'll pay real money to Sony, Apple, Samsung, and Comcast, but authors? No money for you. Beyond the budget.

I'll pay real money to authors, as much as I ever have. More, in fact--most of my pre-ereader money for books went for used books, and authors got no share of that. Now I'm often paying them 85% of list price, and sometimes more than that. Of course, that payment's only happening if list is below $6 and available in epub from a non-DRM store, but those are my terms for purchase; authors who only sell at Amazon or who DRM their books obviously don't want me as a customer.

I'm not going to feel guilty for intending to read a lot more than I'm ever going to pay for. Nor am I going to accept as reasonably any argument that hinges on "all artistic content should be metered;" that's not how any form of art has ever worked.

I am in favor of authors (and other artists) getting paid for their efforts, if their efforts are of interest to the public. I am not in favor of "everyone who perceives the art must pay the artist."

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I'll pay real money to authors, as much as I ever have. More, in fact--most of my pre-ereader money for books went for used books, and authors got no share of that. Now I'm often paying them 85% of list price, and sometimes more than that.

Same here. I loved to go to Half-Price Books before I converting to reading ditigal books. Before Agency Pricing, the amount of money I spent on new ebooks was obscene, truly. (I don't have 800 pairs of shoes, but wow, I have far more ebooks than I'll ever be able to read!)

When I made the choice to not buy ebooks for more than I could RETAIL for new print books (assuming that I could get most new print books for approx. 25% off cover), I saved a whole lot of money....and borrowed more books at the library.