06-15-2013, 01:53 PM | #226 |
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It's quite logical, really.
I like to play fantasy role-playing games, mostly because the better ones have a good story, similar to the fantasy that I often read. It's a bit like playing a novel. Planescape: Torment carries this to the extreme. That game's a cult classic. People who don't like to read, will quit Torment in like.... 10 minutes. Sometimes, you don't do anything for 15 minutes but read dialogue and select responses; those responses will advance and change the story and the options you have in the future. In the end, they'll ultimately determine the ending of the game and what will become of your character. I also like older and some newer city builders and old adventure games. However, I don't like action-orentied MMORPG's (Massive Multiplayer Online RPG's), RPG's set in an apocalyptic setting, Sci-Fi RPG's, 3D shooters, and Real Time Strategy games. The genre, or the way those games are played just doesn't appeal to me. Therefore, I consider all of those games crap. I'm sure that there are many people that consider one or more of the games I label as crap to be a gem of the industry, in the same way I consider Planescape: Torment the best RPG ever created, with regard to story and character depth. I don't like running around maps and blowing stuff up, putting headshots into other players, and point-and-twitch reaction-type gameplay; other people don't like to read dialog, make decisions based on that, and when/if there's combat, pause the game and issue commands to 6 different characters (repeatedly). Both sides will think that the other side's games are crap, and that's fine. Room enough for everyone. Last edited by Katsunami; 06-15-2013 at 01:59 PM. |
06-15-2013, 03:48 PM | #227 |
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I'm curious--are there breakdowns for the kind of material that is being self- or indie-published? Nonfiction, erotica/porn, science fiction/fantasy, horror, mystery/thriller, romance, kidlit, etc.?
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06-15-2013, 04:19 PM | #228 | |
Maria Schneider
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I can't tell you much about erotica porn, but I know that once it took off, it really took off as far as people self-publishing. You can't go on Kindleboards now without some porn author or other being a part of the discussion and because of the sig lines it's pretty obvious they write porn. (The covers show in the sig line if they chose). When I used to be on Kindleboards, I didn't see that sort of thing for the first year I was on. Now it's very prevalent. I found the board about 5 years ago. From what I have seen of sales stats for porn writers, they seem happy with sales. One author I can think of writes mysteries and also porn. He said the porn way outsells the mysteries and he wishes he could just write the mysteries, but that's not the way it has worked for him. Several of the authors apparently use two or more names as well -- one for the porn and the other name for the rest. There are lots of mysteries/cozies/chick-lit/thrillers/romance and sci/fi and these are the most popular categories for fiction that I've seen (reported as far as sales--lit doesn't seem as common or popular for being self-published or for selling all that well). I'd say fiction largely outweighs non-fiction from the questions I see from those who do write non-fiction. The earlier writers doing non-fiction were often bringing back updated books that were out-of-print. Some of them had trouble selling because they wanted to price at 9.99 under the assumption their books were still very inexpensive by comparison to print. (A lot of non-fiction is priced upwards of 35 in the US). There wasn't a large selection of non-fiction 5 years ago, but it's grown. What I saw in non-fiction 5 years ago was largely memoirs--very popular category for self-published writers. I think the self-help and cookbooks and the like has grown enormously in the last two years. I'm seeing more books on soap making, gardening and that sort of thing, but often the complaint is that they are short. I think these will become a more viable self-pub area now that pictures can be more easily rendered. It's tough to sell a recipe book without any kind of picture because people want and expect that. If you pay attention to ad sites, there is at least one who charges more for certain kinds of ads (check bookbub under ads or sponsors--there's a long list of what they charge. If I recall their most popular categories are mysteries.) However, some blogs, DailyCheapReads, carry a lot more cozy and romance. When that blog started a bookclub, the first book chosen by vote was a cozy mystery. Next up was mystery. DailyCheapReads doesn't carry a lot of self-pub'd but from what I've seen, when it is carried it's usually romance or mystery. I don't know if this is a function of what is available or what sells. I'd say that all of those main fiction categories have a healthy number of writers participating. Romance has many outlets including some of the main publishers "lending" their name to what is essentially self-publishing (Avon comes to mind. I think there are others that have "imprints" that are essentially self-publishing.) I don't think romance readers are any more "likely" to buy self-published than anyone else, but I do think there are more of that genre published in this category than many others. Kindleboards people could probably answer that question in a poll type of thing in a hurry. Last edited by BearMountainBooks; 06-15-2013 at 04:21 PM. |
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06-15-2013, 04:23 PM | #229 | |
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Luck; Ken |
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06-15-2013, 06:20 PM | #230 | |||||
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I have nothing to back this up--it's only my impression from seeing covers and blurbs. Quote:
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I would think other nonfiction categories would be a hard sell, because the authors would need some kind of credentials; otherwise why would a reader trust their advice or pronouncements or even recipes? Even though it's technically self-publishing, an established author reissuing his or her backlist seems like a whole 'nother ball game. Quote:
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06-15-2013, 07:03 PM | #231 | |||||
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The porm genre is just more obvious now, and it's easier for it to be distributed. I can't speak to the quality. It is not a genre I read on purpose. I don't care what others read, but I am often offended by the covers. I don't think I should have to see that sort of thing while casually browsing a forum. Towels and grape leaves aside, some of the positioning and/or photos and/or titles are offensive to me. Quote:
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I know a doctor who has now self-published on some medical topics. There's actually a high number of people with various technical backgrounds who want a way to distribute information. More and more of them are getting their books out there and they sell pretty well. Many financial traders have a platform already (existing clients, radio shows even if they are local, seminars). I think this area is seeing some growth in both writers doing it and readers buying it. Being able to buy good technical info for under 10 dollars has been rare, so it's a boon to find a book that provides it. Quote:
A number of publishers also have a "self publish" imprint; perhaps the ebook only is a "compromise." I guess it depends on who is paying for editing and how much editing is done. I think the line between self-publishing, half publishing and so on is becoming very blurry. |
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06-15-2013, 07:22 PM | #232 |
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I miss a discussion of the story editing here. Nearly all books published in the traditional way have been story edited or edited for structure. And that is not a fast process. And an author learns during this process so each book should get better. Even if all self published books were checked for language issues it is still a step back in quality from traditionally published books.
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06-15-2013, 07:48 PM | #233 | ||
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http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2...nda/#more-2755 As for the line blurring, why should there even be one to start with? Some argue that it never really existed, inasmuch as whether a book is indie or trad-pubbed publishing is just a business decision made on a book-by-book basis. Today's "indie author" was yesterday's trad-pub veteran and vice versa. Here is David Farland's take: http://www.davidfarland.net/writing_tips/?a=228 Quote:
The actual choice available to a author is whether or not to submit the book to the traditional publishing *process* to see *if* an agent chooses to present it to a publisher, who then decides if they *think* the book will sell enough for them and *they* choose whether to publish it or not. The trad-pub decision that matters is out of the hands of the author. As Farland says, there are no absolutes; different authors will choose a different process for different books for different reasons. Just as readers have different expectations and preferences for what they choose to read, most writers have different goals and expectations for their books. And, just as for readers what matters is finding reads that satisy *them*, what matters for authors is understanding the strengths and weakness of each approach and choosing the path best suited to *their* project, based on the realities of the business as it exists *today*. (Oh, and avoiding Author Solutions like the plague. That one is pretty much a clear-cut absolute. ) Last edited by fjtorres; 06-15-2013 at 07:51 PM. |
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06-15-2013, 08:36 PM | #234 |
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I thought Harlequin's "selfpub" arm was done by Harlequin (they sell the various editing packages), but, of course, they could easily contract it out to an existing vanity pub. Now as to whether anyone does any editing has always been a question. I never looked into it closely because I didn't care. It had a bad rep from the start as just another vanity publisher (in the worst way--bad service, bad editing and high prices.) Their only really extra was the hope that SOMEHOW a manuscript would be noticed by the real publishing arm. One of the publishers even has this in their marketing material. I can't remember which one it was. I read the marketing material when it first came out and was appalled at how they target the "Dream."
Part of the reason that self-publishing has such a bad rep is because of companies that sell services and don't deliver. Some of the trad publishers (Harlequin was one and there are others) opened a self-pub arm to essentially make money off of hopeful authors. Sadly, they didn't bother to offer any better services than any of the other vanity publishers from what I hear. They don't do real editing and they charge FAR MORE than is necessary. Any writer who wants to spend a few hours researching can find two or three editors, compare prices and services and pick one or two. But ultimately, the author better read through the manuscript about 3 times AFTER editing to make sure they know what they paid for. If you haven't worked with an editor before, do not believe the words, "I loved it. There's very little wrong with it." It may be truthful, but it probably isn't. Hire editors that pick that sucker apart. You don't have to make every change, but you want criticism. You want every comma to be questioned. Why, yes, you'll hate the process. You'll probably be livid, depressed, annoyed and disheartened. Read it again anyway. Two or three times. |
06-16-2013, 11:53 PM | #235 |
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Publishers, I would hazard, are not ideal gatekeepers. The Internet is a wonderful communications medium through which much better filters, gatekeepers and quality monitors can be created and used. There can be many of them, and people can find ones they like and trust, and contribute to them as they wish, etc.
Most of the posts in this thread (besides the off-topic posts) have discussed the situation as a false choice: publishers, or no filter/gatekeeper for readers. That is absolutely not the case, and everyone here knows that. |
06-17-2013, 12:09 AM | #236 | |
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I am not that keen on the term gatekeeper as it seems to imply that the gatekeeper is keeping things out and letting only the priveledged few through. I don't actually think the publishing industry does that. They may be falling all over themselves to get best selling authors published, but I am pretty sure they publish many books that are by first time authors as well because they need more bestselling authors as the current crowd dies off. You seem to be privy to another group of gatekeepers. I would be interested in several examples and how you feel that they have served your interests better than the publishers of yore. Helen |
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06-17-2013, 08:32 AM | #237 | |
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One author blogged about how his series was dropped because he was paid too high an advance for the first three books. While the books earned out, they didn't take off as the publisher assumed, so the series was dropped. Doesn't mean it didn't sell, doesn't mean it didn't have readers. But the gatekeepers made an initial decision on the series and then decided not to pursue it further. The gatekeepers have a lot of criteria to look at. Nothing wrong with it, but it does make the whole thing a bit of a gamble for the reader and the writer. Unless said writer wants to put out more books in a series on his/her own, that series will not continue and it has little to do with the overall quality if quality is defined as "well-edited, well-plotted." It simply didn't find as large an audience as the publisher expected. The author believes that had the initial advance been smaller, he might still be writing the series--expectations would have been set differently, etc. |
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06-17-2013, 08:44 AM | #238 |
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Would Authors be open to the idea of smaller advances if there is an increase in royualties? Honestly, I have a feeling that that is the only way that Publishing as it exists today is going to continue.
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06-17-2013, 09:13 AM | #239 | |||||
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That is exactly what they do. And gatekeeping is *their* term; they brag about it. Here's a long, somewhat rambling post that eventually gets to the point: http://www.theseattlevine.com/featur...h-remembering/ Quote:
Some are amusing in their "my-ox-is getting-gored" obviousness. On the gatekeeping issue: Quote:
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They lash out at ebooks and ereaders (they don't smell like real books do!). They lash out at the first mover in the ebook mainstreaming (Amazon is eeee-vile! Really, honest! They are wrecking civilization!). They lash out at the writers who dare venture into the unknown beyond the gatekept reservation. Simple equation: gatekeeping = power. Power of choice. Deciding who gets to market (Nicole Polizzi: yes, Amanda Hocking: no. At least not until she was selling by the million on her own.) Power of setting contract terms ("Take it or leave it, that is how the industry works."). Power to set and raise prices ("Print went up yet again so we need to raise prices again." "Oh, printing costs are a *tiny* part of the costs of producing a book!") at the drop of a hat, even through collusion. Easy to do with print in the old days, not so easy in the digital domain. And this time they were so blatant the caught the eye of the trust-busters of the DOJ. The backlash? The gatekeepers are losing (a portion of) their power. So the do what old entrenched powers do when they are threaened by changing times; they dish out the FUD big time to get the sheep back in line. They need to maintain the central myth that keeps them in business: that the *only* good books are the ones *they* publish. Nothing else is worth consumers notice or their money. Finally, one of Franklin's smears caught her eye: Quote:
Enough that 20% of all UK book sales are indie. Enough that 25% of Nook sales are indie. Enough that 10% of Kobo's worldwide sales are from *their* inhouse indie channel. Enough that maybe half the romance books sold in the US are indie. Note those are *sold* numbers, not published. Those are "consumers voting their wallet" numbers. Those are "reality shifting under your feet" numbers. And there is worse (for them) coming, now that the major pbook distributors like B&T and Ingram are listing and distributing POD indie *pbooks* the same as the trad-pubbed titles. What is happening in ebooks is moving to (trade paperback) pbooks and (soon) hardcovers. The disruption in book publishing and distribution that started with ebooks isn't stopping there. And neither is the FUD from the (properly) scared traditionalists. But just because *they* are scared doesn't mean *we, the readers* have to be. Because the thing is, the way things are going, the new gatekeepers are *us*. We get to choose what is good. The power is moving dwnstream, where it always belonged. And now it is up to us to use that power responsibly. Because, as somebody keeps saying (ad-nauseum) with great power comes great responsibility. In this case, the responsibility to set your own standards of good or bad; to read what pleases you and accept that others have their own standards, something Mr Franklin and his ilk seek to deny us. The gatekeepers really wish we would let them choose for us. Me, I'd rather choose for myself; I don't mind wading ankle deep through the slush pile. If anything, it's fun; exercising my new-found power to find reading jewels on my own. More folks should give it a try; it's not at all hard to do. Last edited by fjtorres; 06-17-2013 at 09:20 AM. |
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06-17-2013, 09:25 AM | #240 | |
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