IMPORTANT: Rules for posting affiliate links in this forum - Page 15

vaughnmr · 09-29-2011, 11:11 AM

I've given up on this forum. It's just one big mess now. Hope everyone's happy...

anamardoll · 09-29-2011, 11:24 AM

I completely agree with BillSmithBooks. The only way I can see to share books -- and this is what I did today -- is to just post *that* I found something and where, and I didn't provide any links. Since I'd got the deal from eReaderIQ, I wasn't sure I could scrub the links satisfactorily, and I knew that if I got called a liar, I might lose my temper and sass someone. ("Liar" is about the worst thing you can call someone in my family. It was The Unforgivable Sin when I was growing up: break the cookie jar, bad; lie about it, worse-than-anything-ever.)

A lot of B&N and Amazon links have refs and tags in them. I genuinely don't know whether those things are required or affiliations or what. And I don't even know how to deal with the shortened links -- Amazon has its own link shortener now, I noticed the other day when I was updating my YouTube reviews.

I just find the whole thing very discouraging. I hope my "A book I like is half-priced at Amazon" post helps someone, but I feel bad not including a link.

EDIT: May I start my own thread but instead of Affiliate Links for Ana, call it Affiliate Links for eReaderIQ? That's where my finds come from and I don't re-aff them for my account. And other people could contribute finds there, too.

ScalyFreak · 09-29-2011, 12:19 PM

Whoa there everyone. You are free to think the moderators are too harsh, or that this was handled poorly, but anyone who wants to accuse them of over-reacting is sort of obligated to stay calm and keep a cool head. Pots and kettles are both black, as it goes. Let's not over-react to the over-reaction. That helps no one.

Let's try to break this down into manageable components:

1. Advertising is not allowed on MobileRead. That's what the rules say and that's standard for pretty much any forum community out there.

2. An affiliate link is a form of advertising, since clicking on it give the person posting it a small amount of money. Just like if someone was to post Google Ads on their blog, when you click on those ads, the blogger gets a small amount of money.

3. Logically then, based on 1 and 2, affiliate links are not allowed on MR anymore than any other form of advertising is.

4. MR moderators and admins decide to allow affiliate links anyway, as long as they are limited to specific threads and it is clearly stated that these links are affiliate links. It is up to the one posting the link to make sure there are no affiliate tags.

Re-read that, take a deep breath, and ask yourself why this is worth throwing a fit over? It's only a forum. It's only little tags and pocket change. Learning how to spot an affiliate tag and how to remove it from a URL is really not that difficult, and there are lots of experienced MR users who I'm sure would be happy to help. Let's not make this issue any bigger or more contentious than it needs to be, okay?

anamardoll · 09-29-2011, 12:27 PM

ScalyFreak, I am referring to the apparently new Standard Moderator Notice in this thread:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=151478

The OP posted a link from SlickDeals, not realizing it was an aff link from someone else. I feel that the response is harsh enough to discourage people from posting for fear of making mistakes and being called names. Others may disagree, but being told that I am "lying" is a big deal to me, personally.

Since Koland has been kind enough to clarify that every link from SlickDeals, Inkmesh, and eReaderIQ is an affiliate link, and since that's where many people were getting their deals, and since not everyone knows how to scrub links, and since the moderator response is... somewhat harsh, there's some concern there.

Also, ScalyFreak, you know I love your posts, but please don't say I am "throwing a fit" to be concerned about this. It's apparently NOT that simple to scrub tags -- in the three threads on this issue, Koland has posted some very interesting details about how different many of the affiliate tags are and how some are all but impossible to spot.

I actually posted an example of a weird aff link in my post to ask for help, but then removed it because I wasn't sure I was allowed to post it asking for help. Send me a PM if you want to see the one I mean. Assuming I'm allowed to send aff links through PM for educational purposes. Am I?

And this is kind of the point: We've been given no education about this issue, I'm not even sure if we're allowed to post aff links asking how to scrub them, and the moderators are throwing around terms like lying at people who are making honest mistakes. It's not fair, and it's not respectful. It hurt a poster's feelings already and I'm not comfortable with it. And it's all being framed as greedy people making money off the moderators' time and efforts, which is not helpful to people who repost eReaderIQ and SlickDeals links in all innocence.

ATDrake has put together a very nice boilerplate and offered it to the moderators to use in place of the "lying" one, but I haven't really seen anyone say, yeah, that's probably better for us to use. It seems like this is almost personal to someone and it's just... I don't know. Rambling. I guess I'm just saying that I don't like insults online, and I get uncomfortable when they come from moderator notices. Especially since I'm never sure how much it will seem like sass to say, um, no, I wasn't lying thankyouverymuch I made a mistake.

As for myself, being called a liar *is* a big deal. I love Mobile Reads, I love the moderator team, and I like you, so I'm hoping this doesn't come off as harsh, but my concerns feel genuine to me, and I would prefer them not be dismissed as a "fit". Since you brought up respect (and rightfully so) earlier in the thread, I hope you can respect my concerns as I do your opinions.

ScalyFreak · 09-29-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

The OP posted a link from SlickDeals, not realizing it was an aff link from someone else. I feel that the response is harsh enough to discourage people from posting for fear of making mistakes and being called names. Others may disagree, but being told that I am "lying" is a big deal to me, personally.

I know, I saw the thread. So, since I'm bored, let me play Devil's Advocate here.

You're trying to tell me you've been frequenting this forum for how long, and you don't know an affiliate link when you see it? Or were you just naive enough to assume that a site named "Slick Deals", that does nothing but collect slick deals from all over the internet, would do it without adding affiliate tags? Which by the way would make them the only such site on the internet who doesn't survive on the revenue they get from their affiliate links... but you thought you'd just assume that without double checking, because you honestly don't know better? Never mind that we've just spent a day explaining why this is no longer allowed.

I know I phrased that a bit harshly, but bear with me here. When you reach a certain level of internet savvy, you're supposed to be able to tell the difference between an affiliate link and a non-affiliate, just like you are supposed to know the difference between the email attachment "cutekitten.jpg" and "cutekitten.jpg.exe"

Yeah, the moderator note was a bit harsh. But it probably really didn't help anyone's patience that an affiliate link was posted in blatant defiance of the new rules literally within hours of the new rules being posted and discussed. Speaking as a moderator myself (I volunteer my time as one in another forum I frequent), I can see not only how it would make someone snap, but also how that post presented a perfect opportunity to make an example and show that the new rules are serious and will be enforced.

In the end, I don't see that note as a big deal. I really don't believe that MobileRead is about to turn into a petty police state kind of forum with harsh and mean moderators harassing anyone who makes a mistake. Why would it?

EDIT:
You added a bunch of stuff to your post while I was typing it. I'll go back and re-read and reply to anything I missed that needs replying.

anamardoll · 09-29-2011, 12:57 PM

I had a whole response written out, but then deleted it. I'm very disappointed with myself for being unable to answer your post with the standard of politeness I hold myself to.

I will try again, and will try to be brief.

I do not consider myself a naive person, since you ask. And, yes, I know what my affiliate links usually look like. However, I've seen links since this issue came up that I wouldn't be able to tell were affiliated and which I wouldn't know how to scrub. And those are the ones that I'm concerned about accidentally posting. If you think that makes me naive or stupid or internet un-savvy, so be it. You already know I asked for your help with distributing my novel over the freewaves because I didn't know how. (That was you, right?

)

As I said, I have an example, but since I genuinely don't know if I can post it, I won't.

I hope you won't mind if I disengage from your questions for awhile. I find this whole situation very upsetting and between the lying, the throwing a fit, and the naive references, I must say that I think one side of the debate is engaging in a manner that makes me uncomfortable. If you "know" you're phrasing your posts to me harshly, and choose not to make them more polite, I don't know how to feel like I'm being spoken to with mutual respect. I apologize, but that's just how I feel.

ScalyFreak · 09-29-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Also, ScalyFreak, you know I love your posts, but please don't say I am "throwing a fit" to be concerned about this.

<snippety-snip-snip>

As for myself, being called a liar *is* a big deal. I love Mobile Reads, I love the moderator team, and I like you, so I'm hoping this doesn't come off as harsh, but my concerns feel genuine to me, and I would prefer them not be dismissed as a "fit". Since you brought up respect (and rightfully so) earlier in the thread, I hope you can respect my concerns as I do your opinions.

I wasn't referring to you. Sorry if you felt that way.

I was referring to the posts I've seen in this thread that are expressing "screw this, you all suck now and I'm leaving the forum"-type sentiments. That kind of over-reaction helps no one, and as far as I'm concerned we're better off without posts like those. What's needed is to have concerns expressed in a clear and concise manner, with constructive suggestions. So your posts are actually the very opposite of what I'm complaining about...

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I've seen links since this issue came up that I wouldn't be able to tell were affiliated and which I wouldn't know how to scrub. And those are the ones that I'm concerned about accidentally posting.

...like this.

And those kinds of links are of course where the problem is. Me personally, I would post those links anyway, with the disclaimer "I tried to remove all affiliate tags from this link, and if i failed, I apologize".

anamardoll · 09-29-2011, 01:02 PM

Thank you for saying so. *internet hugs* to you, too. If you'll forgive me, I'm going to go lie down for a bit and take a break. Still pals?

ScalyFreak · 09-29-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Thank you for saying so. *internet hugs* to you, too. If you'll forgive me, I'm going to go lie down for a bit and take a break. Still pals?

Ew. I am really not a hugging person!

I take nothing on the internet personally, as you might have gathered from my posts, and I sometimes forget that not everyone thinks that way. No harm, no foul.

DuskyRose · 09-29-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

I know, I saw the thread. So, since I'm bored, let me play Devil's Advocate here.

You're trying to tell me you've been frequenting this forum for how long, and you don't know an affiliate link when you see it?

I think it's ridiculous to think that everyone knows what they are, or cares enough to notice.

I wouldn't know an Affiliate Link from any other kind if it bit me in the butt.

I've never had a need to know, or cared, before. Lots of computer stuff is like that. Until you have a reason to know, you don't know what you don't know.

So I can't see why anyone would assume that this is common knowledge.

Catlady · 09-29-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I think it's ridiculous to think that everyone knows what they are, or cares enough to notice.

I wouldn't know an Affiliate Link from any other kind if it bit me in the butt.

I've never had a need to know, or cared, before. Lots of computer stuff is like that. Until you have a reason to know, you don't know what you don't know.

So I can't see why anyone would assume that this is common knowledge.

Plus it's not always a matter of recognizing an affiliate link as such; it's being consciously aware of one. I do know what one usually looks like; I don't pay generally pay attention, though, if I'm pasting a link from my browser or picking up a link from a Web page. I'm on autopilot then, and I suspect that's how most of us operate.

Now, a person who is an affiliate clearly knows when posting the link. But the accusation of lying was made to someone who was merely picking up someone else's link. That's why it rankles so much.

ScalyFreak · 09-29-2011, 01:59 PM

Easy way to recognize an affiliate link: If it is posted anywhere other than on the site that sells the item in question, assume it's an affiliate link. Amazon links from someone other than Amzon, B&N links from someone other than B&N, et cetera... that's what I do anyway. But then, I don't post links here, I just click on them, so I don't need a more detailed approach than that.

koland · 09-29-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Amazon explicitly says this is not so in the text Ana posted above.
Amazon is free to maintain the affiliate link association with an Amazon account by their own server-side methods for as little or as much time as they like. The use of cookies really need have nothing to do with it.

That's a new change in how they track and how a session is defined.

Cool with me - wonder if it crosses browsers, now?

anamardoll · 09-29-2011, 02:19 PM

With the greatest respect, ScalyFreak, if you're not posting deals for the other users, then I can see why this policy doesn't make you concerned that you might get in trouble for posting the wrong kind of link. You're pretty much 100% safe, but you're also in a poor position to evaluate the reasonableness of the concerns of the deal-posters. Forgive me for saying so.

I'm glad we're still internet friends. I apologize for the unwanted hug. I'll try to remember that.

EDIT: Glad to see Koland confirm the cookie thing is an Amazon update and not Ana getting brain damage.

petercreasey · 09-29-2011, 02:26 PM

I don't know that I've ever seen an affiliate link so I wouldn't know what the term exactly means in the context here. But then again, I don't have a need to know, so please don't write replies to educate me. I don't have time to soak up the info.

This bulletin board just needs to revert back to what is most convenient and what the vast majority obviously prefer.

Thanks!

09-29-2011, 11:24 AM	#212
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	I completely agree with BillSmithBooks. The only way I can see to share books -- and this is what I did today -- is to just post that I found something and where, and I didn't provide any links. Since I'd got the deal from eReaderIQ, I wasn't sure I could scrub the links satisfactorily, and I knew that if I got called a liar, I might lose my temper and sass someone. ("Liar" is about the worst thing you can call someone in my family. It was The Unforgivable Sin when I was growing up: break the cookie jar, bad; lie about it, worse-than-anything-ever.) A lot of B&N and Amazon links have refs and tags in them. I genuinely don't know whether those things are required or affiliations or what. And I don't even know how to deal with the shortened links -- Amazon has its own link shortener now, I noticed the other day when I was updating my YouTube reviews. I just find the whole thing very discouraging. I hope my "A book I like is half-priced at Amazon" post helps someone, but I feel bad not including a link. EDIT: May I start my own thread but instead of Affiliate Links for Ana, call it Affiliate Links for eReaderIQ? That's where my finds come from and I don't re-aff them for my account. And other people could contribute finds there, too. Last edited by anamardoll; 09-29-2011 at 11:33 AM.

09-29-2011, 12:27 PM	#214
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	ScalyFreak, I am referring to the apparently new Standard Moderator Notice in this thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=151478 The OP posted a link from SlickDeals, not realizing it was an aff link from someone else. I feel that the response is harsh enough to discourage people from posting for fear of making mistakes and being called names. Others may disagree, but being told that I am "lying" is a big deal to me, personally. Since Koland has been kind enough to clarify that every link from SlickDeals, Inkmesh, and eReaderIQ is an affiliate link, and since that's where many people were getting their deals, and since not everyone knows how to scrub links, and since the moderator response is... somewhat harsh, there's some concern there. Also, ScalyFreak, you know I love your posts, but please don't say I am "throwing a fit" to be concerned about this. It's apparently NOT that simple to scrub tags -- in the three threads on this issue, Koland has posted some very interesting details about how different many of the affiliate tags are and how some are all but impossible to spot. I actually posted an example of a weird aff link in my post to ask for help, but then removed it because I wasn't sure I was allowed to post it asking for help. Send me a PM if you want to see the one I mean. Assuming I'm allowed to send aff links through PM for educational purposes. Am I? And this is kind of the point: We've been given no education about this issue, I'm not even sure if we're allowed to post aff links asking how to scrub them, and the moderators are throwing around terms like lying at people who are making honest mistakes. It's not fair, and it's not respectful. It hurt a poster's feelings already and I'm not comfortable with it. And it's all being framed as greedy people making money off the moderators' time and efforts, which is not helpful to people who repost eReaderIQ and SlickDeals links in all innocence. ATDrake has put together a very nice boilerplate and offered it to the moderators to use in place of the "lying" one, but I haven't really seen anyone say, yeah, that's probably better for us to use. It seems like this is almost personal to someone and it's just... I don't know. Rambling. I guess I'm just saying that I don't like insults online, and I get uncomfortable when they come from moderator notices. Especially since I'm never sure how much it will seem like sass to say, um, no, I wasn't lying thankyouverymuch I made a mistake. As for myself, being called a liar is a big deal. I love Mobile Reads, I love the moderator team, and I like you, so I'm hoping this doesn't come off as harsh, but my concerns feel genuine to me, and I would prefer them not be dismissed as a "fit". Since you brought up respect (and rightfully so) earlier in the thread, I hope you can respect my concerns as I do your opinions. Last edited by anamardoll; 09-29-2011 at 12:47 PM.

09-29-2011, 12:57 PM	#216
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	I had a whole response written out, but then deleted it. I'm very disappointed with myself for being unable to answer your post with the standard of politeness I hold myself to. I will try again, and will try to be brief. I do not consider myself a naive person, since you ask. And, yes, I know what my affiliate links usually look like. However, I've seen links since this issue came up that I wouldn't be able to tell were affiliated and which I wouldn't know how to scrub. And those are the ones that I'm concerned about accidentally posting. If you think that makes me naive or stupid or internet un-savvy, so be it. You already know I asked for your help with distributing my novel over the freewaves because I didn't know how. (That was you, right? ) As I said, I have an example, but since I genuinely don't know if I can post it, I won't. I hope you won't mind if I disengage from your questions for awhile. I find this whole situation very upsetting and between the lying, the throwing a fit, and the naive references, I must say that I think one side of the debate is engaging in a manner that makes me uncomfortable. If you "know" you're phrasing your posts to me harshly, and choose not to make them more polite, I don't know how to feel like I'm being spoken to with mutual respect. I apologize, but that's just how I feel. Last edited by anamardoll; 09-29-2011 at 01:01 PM.

09-29-2011, 11:11 AM	#211
vaughnmr Ebook Reader Posts: 605 Karma: 3205128 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Device: Kindle 3, HTC Evo, HTC View	I've given up on this forum. It's just one big mess now. Hope everyone's happy...

09-29-2011, 12:19 PM	#213
ScalyFreak Sith Wannabe Posts: 2,034 Karma: 8017430 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: I'm not sure... it's kind of dark. Device: Galaxy Note 4, Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Fire HD, Aluratek Libre	Whoa there everyone. You are free to think the moderators are too harsh, or that this was handled poorly, but anyone who wants to accuse them of over-reacting is sort of obligated to stay calm and keep a cool head. Pots and kettles are both black, as it goes. Let's not over-react to the over-reaction. That helps no one. Let's try to break this down into manageable components: 1. Advertising is not allowed on MobileRead. That's what the rules say and that's standard for pretty much any forum community out there. 2. An affiliate link is a form of advertising, since clicking on it give the person posting it a small amount of money. Just like if someone was to post Google Ads on their blog, when you click on those ads, the blogger gets a small amount of money. 3. Logically then, based on 1 and 2, affiliate links are not allowed on MR anymore than any other form of advertising is. 4. MR moderators and admins decide to allow affiliate links anyway, as long as they are limited to specific threads and it is clearly stated that these links are affiliate links. It is up to the one posting the link to make sure there are no affiliate tags. Re-read that, take a deep breath, and ask yourself why this is worth throwing a fit over? It's only a forum. It's only little tags and pocket change. Learning how to spot an affiliate tag and how to remove it from a URL is really not that difficult, and there are lots of experienced MR users who I'm sure would be happy to help. Let's not make this issue any bigger or more contentious than it needs to be, okay?

09-29-2011, 01:02 PM	#218
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	Thank you for saying so. internet hugs to you, too. If you'll forgive me, I'm going to go lie down for a bit and take a break. Still pals?

09-29-2011, 01:59 PM	#222
ScalyFreak Sith Wannabe Posts: 2,034 Karma: 8017430 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: I'm not sure... it's kind of dark. Device: Galaxy Note 4, Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Fire HD, Aluratek Libre	Easy way to recognize an affiliate link: If it is posted anywhere other than on the site that sells the item in question, assume it's an affiliate link. Amazon links from someone other than Amzon, B&N links from someone other than B&N, et cetera... that's what I do anyway. But then, I don't post links here, I just click on them, so I don't need a more detailed approach than that.

09-29-2011, 02:19 PM	#224
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	With the greatest respect, ScalyFreak, if you're not posting deals for the other users, then I can see why this policy doesn't make you concerned that you might get in trouble for posting the wrong kind of link. You're pretty much 100% safe, but you're also in a poor position to evaluate the reasonableness of the concerns of the deal-posters. Forgive me for saying so. I'm glad we're still internet friends. I apologize for the unwanted hug. I'll try to remember that. EDIT: Glad to see Koland confirm the cookie thing is an Amazon update and not Ana getting brain damage.

09-29-2011, 02:26 PM	#225
petercreasey Wizard Posts: 1,147 Karma: 1119516 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: Sony: PRS 950 & T1, Kobo: Aura One & Forma	I don't know that I've ever seen an affiliate link so I wouldn't know what the term exactly means in the context here. But then again, I don't have a need to know, so please don't write replies to educate me. I don't have time to soak up the info. This bulletin board just needs to revert back to what is most convenient and what the vast majority obviously prefer. Thanks!

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