03-05-2012, 12:58 PM | #61 | |||||
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Copyright only gives you exclusive control over products, not markets. But brands always have monopoly power. Quote:
If you have a patent, you have no general obligation to license it on FRAND terms, no matter how useful it is. But if you have a patent that you want to be used as a part of a "standard" - like IEEE 802.11n for wifi, or the "3G" standard for cell phones, the organization that creates the standard will require your patent to be offered on a FRAND basis if you want it to be part of the standard. (There are often several thousand patents in a standard). You are free to decline this and not be part of the standard. (Although the net result will be that the standard will use some other patent that agrees to be offered on a FRAND basis and you will be left out in the cold, since the market for wifi that doesn't comply with 802.11a/b/g/n is tiny, if it exists at all). And even though your FRAND license may be tiny, you do get to collect it on almost every wifi device sold - since they all want to comply with the standard). More significantly, though - companies getting together and setting a standard for a particular device raises antitrust and monopoly issues. The companies holding the wifi patents do have monopoly power, and they got this by getting together with some other companies and fixing prices. This would be illegal *except* that there is an anti-trust exception for companies that use FRAND licensing. This is what got Motorola in trouble - they have patents that they agreed to make part of the 3G cellphone standard. But they do not appear to be offering them on a FRAND basis to Apple. This means that the anti-trust exemption does not apply to them and thus they may have violated anti-trust laws. Quote:
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03-05-2012, 01:17 PM | #62 | ||
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03-05-2012, 06:00 PM | #63 | ||
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While I don't expect that libraries will ever get books for the same price as you and I (and AFAIK they never have)... a 300% price increase for the same product is pretty immoral and I think it should be illegal. The fact does remain that libraries are where the majority of the reading public get access to literacy. There is no way to have a democratic nation without literacy. So, in effect, there is no America as we know it without libraries. |
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03-05-2012, 08:00 PM | #64 | |||
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"Price gouging" in the law refers to a sudden rise in prices due to an external shock. For example, if there is a hurricane that knocks down a bunch of power lines, and the local hardware store charges $750 for a $250 generator, that might qualify as price gouging. It is not universally held that raising prices like this is awful. Some people innately react to this as taking advantage of a situation; others innately react to it as a method of ensuring that a vital resource is not depleted rapidly in an emergency. A publisher who asks a library to pay more than you believe they should pay -- for a good that is completely optional and upon which life and livelihood does not depend -- does not qualify as "gouging" in the legal sense. Quote:
What if I believe that an iPhone is three times more expensive than it "ought" to be? Do I have a moral right to demand that Apple cut its prices by 1/3? That the government ought to step in and adjust prices? No one is forcing the libraries to purchase Random House's titles. There is no inherent price to any good -- only what the market will pay. If Random House sets its prices higher than the libraries are willing to pay, then either RH will lower its prices or lose the business. Libraries make up about 5% of the annual market, and can coordinate via professional organizations such as ALA. Government threats won't help the situation -- since the most likely response is for Random House to just stop selling ebooks to libraries. No sales, no accusations of "price gouging." Not much of a solution. I.e. library protests with public support makes sense. Expecting government to step in and interfere with the process does not. Quote:
However, your statement is definitely an exaggeration. • Schools are the primary drivers of literacy • Free / public libraries are actually a relatively recent part of American life; e.g. the Boston Public was only founded in 1848. • the role of libraries is rapidly changing anyway, with less influence placed anyway on the literacy role And of course, almost every nation in modern society reinvents itself constantly. The "America as we know it" will be gone in 20 years anyway. |
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03-05-2012, 09:06 PM | #65 | |||
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In some parts of the world, you surely can haggle with retailers over the price of a book. I'd be surprised if lots of people (say, tourists) weren't charged 300 percent more than others for a Random House title. Quote:
Publishers tend to be joint stock companies that would face hostile takeovers if they charged much less than the revenue-maximizing price. |
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03-05-2012, 09:22 PM | #66 |
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I'm all for literacy, but are you sure about this? India had democracy, with an illiterate majority, for over forty years (before becoming 50 percent literate around 1990).
For the past decade or so, a lot of the best-setting non-fiction, in the US, has been on the theme that people of other political persuasions are all idiots or knaves. Maybe it would have been more helpful to democracy if the readers had been watching TV instead! You can have democracy without literacy, and dictatorship with it. What you can't have without literacy is economic prosperity. Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 03-05-2012 at 09:50 PM. |
03-05-2012, 10:18 PM | #67 | |
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I believe you about the law - the "apt" part is your opinion.
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And there are no "free access" to any of these works. These books are paid for. Paid for. Not free. Each and every one is paid for with my dime and your dime AND they are MORE EXPENSIVE than what is available commercially. |
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03-06-2012, 10:30 AM | #68 | ||||
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I'm not saying that every school is 100% perfect. I'm pointing out that while many libraries do offer literacy training and are an excellent resource for their communities, it's screamingly obvious that the overwhelming majority of people learn to read in schools, not in libraries. I.e. if every public library in the US closed its doors today, society would be negatively impacted, but literacy rates would not drop significantly. Quote:
If a publisher chooses to contribute their products as a public good, that's their choice. If you threaten them with prosecution because they charge too much, that's going to end up detrimental -- especially if they decide to stop library sales altogether, in order to avoid prosecution. Quote:
It's no different than any other government service. A fire or police department should not be able to force vendors to fix prices for them or apply discounts; that should be at the discretion of the retailer. Someone who owns a well-reputed work of art and chooses to sell it to the highest bidder should not be required by law to sell it to the Smithsonian, and only charge 50% more than the price she paid for it. If a hospital has a bad credit rating, the normal procedure is for a lender to charge a higher interest rate to compensate for the risks; should this be classified as "gouging" and therefore declared illegal? I.e. you need a little something more than a gut feeling before you insist that government step in and fix prices. |
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03-06-2012, 12:04 PM | #69 | ||||
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03-06-2012, 12:04 PM | #70 | |
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03-06-2012, 12:22 PM | #71 |
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03-06-2012, 12:38 PM | #72 | ||
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A publisher can sell you a book directly at full price, while a retailer slashes the price by 50% or 75%. It happens all the time, with retailer discounts, used books and remaindered books. Quote:
If I self-publish a book, I get full control over how that book is distributed. I am not legally or morally required to provide the public with anything. If I decide I don't want libraries to distribute my book, should I be forced to do so? Why stop at imposing extra duties on publishers? What's so special about libraries, since there are so many public goods? Why not require gasoline companies to provide gas for free to fire departments? Free bullets to police? Free medicines to hospitals? |
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03-06-2012, 03:21 PM | #73 | |
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03-06-2012, 04:01 PM | #74 | |
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A great example is Netflix, Redbox, et al. Warner Brothers and others have come out with 30 day and starting soon in some cases 60 day blackouts in when Netflix, Redbox and others can rent new releases. However, that only applies to movies sold to those companies through wholesale rental copy deals with them. The companies can go out and buy the movies at retail price and rent them to their hearts content day 1 without the movie publishers being able to say a thing. Within reason, libraries versus publishers should/is the exact same situation, but it isn't playing out that way. I firmly believe electronic media, software, etc should be treated exactly how physical media is. If the library can legally purchase a book and lend it, then there should be nothing stopping them from buying the ebook however they want and lending it. Yes, there are some additional strings attached when it comes to electronic means. It isn't ethical, let alone legal (and grey area there) to buy a single ebook and lend it concurrently to multiple people. However, my public library damn well should be able to buy 50 copies of a kindle book off Amazon and lend it up to 50 times at once without anyone being able to tell them differently. |
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03-06-2012, 09:43 PM | #75 | ||
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Librarians are taught to try to be as impartial as possible when including material in a library's collection. This doesn't mean there is no discretion at all but we can't rule out a book just because one person may consider it fluff or because someone else thinks the library should store non-fiction books. So even though one librarian may only read book reviewed in the New York Times Review of Books or books published by academic presses, she can't limit the libraries collection to those books. That's limiting information, which we're not in the business of doing. You may think that a novel doesn't provide information but information can be found in many places. Children's fiction often provides information about different subjects. They're fictional but they help children learn about a variety of issues. YA fiction can often have information on how teens handle topics such as sex, relationships, friendships, etc. Is it factual in the sense that a non-fiction will be? No. Still, many adolescents can still gain some useful information. Even adult fiction can be informative. I can't begin to count all of the things I've learned about different time periods, people, cultures, etc. from reading novels. Additionally, information doesn't only come in books. It can come in the form of a book on tape, a CD of Chopin's greatest hits, a DVD of a documentary and more. So my point in all of this is that the mission of libraries as we know them is to provide information to their communities in a variety of formats. That's why the restriction of e-books by the major publishers is frustrating for librarians. I know that for now, nearly all books are still published as p-books but as e-books become more popular and even the preferred distribution for books, the restrictions on e-books will become more troubling. I'm not even sure that boycotting Random House will make a difference. I think they're sending a message that they really couldn't give a rat's butt about whether or not libraries buy their e-books. They would rather have all those people who borrow e-books from the library buy from them directly. That would profitable for them. What better way to send that message than by making e-books cost prohibitive to obtain for libraries? It makes sense from their POV but it is still frustrating for libraries. |
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