02-20-2010, 06:34 PM | #16 | |
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Plagiarism is not simply passing someone else's work off off as ones own. If it was then we would have to count Michelangelo, Andy Warhol and Damien Hirst - to name a few - as plagiarists since what they claim as their work was actually executed by a number of people other than themselves, yet the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, the Brillo boxes and the cut-in-half cows are considered to be "by" these artists. Furthermore, the artists fail to acknowledge the individuals who actually executed the works. So far this young woman would seem to be in no different position from the artists mentioned. Her intellectual and aesthetic labour was concerned with conceptualizing the organization of some material in order to bring about some aesthetic affect or effect, (leaving aside for the moment the possibility that she did it primarily to make a stack of money). That she didn't actually create some of the strings of words that appear in the book, in her head, would seem to be as important to determining the value of the work as the fact that not all the brushstrokes on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel are by Michelangelo's own hand. And it is a question of the value of the work, since to say that it is plagiarized is to make a judgment as to the value of the work. Further, it is to make a judgment as to the value of the work on the basis of not having read but only having read an article in the NYT about it. Now it may be that she did write the book primarily to make a stack of money, with no serious artistic intent. In which case I would agree that this is plagiarism. But are we really able to decide that on the basis of the information we have got? |
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02-20-2010, 06:43 PM | #17 |
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02-20-2010, 07:02 PM | #18 | ||
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02-20-2010, 07:09 PM | #19 |
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Plagiarismus is not ok - using someone elses work is ok as long as you give credit where credit is due. She plainly just strung pieces from other authors together - had she credited them her work would be accepteable as a 'collection' but she didn't do that.
And using artists as an example is a bad one as they had the original idea and the patrons of the time knew that they used other people to execute the work. Just because you can't remember all the names is hardly the fault of the artists. |
02-21-2010, 06:54 AM | #20 | |
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02-21-2010, 07:00 AM | #21 | |
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02-21-2010, 09:05 AM | #22 |
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I'm not sure there is any need for insults but if that's what you want to do carry on. We disagree - I think it is legitimate to use material that has first appeared somewhere else so long as what is created by that use is something new. I think this because most of the thoughts that I think, sentences that I utter, paragraphs that I write, are derivative of the experiences that I have had - many of which experiences are other people's thoughts, sentences and paragraphs.
You think something else - about which I could throw insults, and would be happy to. You seem to carry on thinking what you think even thought the situation has changed and the author and her publisher have now acknowledged the original sources. What seems to be at the bottom of your criticism (of the author, the publisher, me, I'm not sure), is some kind of guess at the intentionality behind the act. But it is just a guess. Disagreeing is fine. Being rude is not. |
02-21-2010, 09:51 AM | #23 | |
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If you can't understand that, you are either not understanding (slow) or simply unwilling to accept the facts. The fact that the publisher is re-publishing with appropriate credit to the original writers is clearly supportive of the fact that it was plagiarism. Last edited by kennyc; 02-21-2010 at 09:54 AM. |
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02-21-2010, 11:00 AM | #24 | |
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Maybe the fact that the publisher is republishing with references to original sources says more about the hysterical knee-jerk reaction from people who cannot see beyond the end of their nose to to the other side of their small-mindedness. Amongst which reactions I include yours. |
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02-21-2010, 11:24 AM | #25 | |
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I think not. I think it has more to do with plagiarism and law than anything. You may disagree, but the facts speak for themselves in this case and it has nothing to do with opinion. |
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02-21-2010, 11:32 AM | #26 | |||||
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Helene Hegemann tried to justify herself. (Full article in german here) Quote:
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I gues calling her work or at least parts of it "plagiarism" is justifiable. Last edited by netseeker; 02-21-2010 at 11:42 AM. |
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02-21-2010, 07:24 PM | #27 |
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Before the inclusion of the sources in the book it was plagiarismus. Now it's legit - if the book actually has been layed out in such a way that each text she took is clearly marked.
Plagiarismus or not doesn't deter from the fact that she was able to string text blocks together with her own words and created a book. How much value it has is in the eyes of each individual. She has after all created a work from different sources. I just wish she was honest enough to begin with, then everyone could have made an informed decision as to wether this book has any value or not. But in my eyes the damage is done as she was not honest to begin with. Last edited by Katti's Cat; 02-22-2010 at 05:57 PM. Reason: forgot NOT - so important here |
02-22-2010, 05:36 PM | #28 |
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It was certainly plagiarism when she blatantly copied the intellectual work of others and tried to pass if off as her own. Even referencing the work of others doesn't excuse or change this unless she makes clear what is her work, and what is anothers. If she had done exactly what she did at a university, well, she might not be at that university any more.
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02-23-2010, 01:39 AM | #29 | |
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Hmmm. In that case, I think the concept for my next book will be 'car theft.' However, I do find the notion of a collision between Berlin's "mixing scene" and the literary establishment, mentioned in the article, fascinating. It almost implies something of a minor cultural clash. The girl's claims that the contextual alteration necessitate in translating the material are as effecting as any to alterations the text itself- which made have made her actions more palpable- are also philosophically, if probably not legally, interesting. . |
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02-23-2010, 09:02 PM | #30 |
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Plagiarism is wrong. This was plagiarism. for more info goto plagiarism.org
Last edited by Billjr13; 02-27-2010 at 03:10 PM. Reason: fix spelling error |