DRM is necessary and good, stop complaining - Page 3

hidari · 11-27-2007, 09:45 AM

DRM.. So I have to pay two times for the same book so a "gifted" writer can get royalties on it....or a company....

So..Should I pay my Plumber every time I flush the toilet for fixing my leak that occured at 2 in the morning and works fine now due to his "gifted" knowledge of plumbing...

should he get my royalties as well?

TallMomof2 · 11-27-2007, 09:46 AM

I don't like DRM but if the files are portable between my devices I can live with it.

AnemicOak · 11-27-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

I don't like DRM but if the files are portable between my devices I can live with it.

I think a lot of folks would live with it if there was one DRM scheme & it was usable with every device on the market. It still wouldn't be great, but it'd be easier for folks to deal with.

slayda · 11-27-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I think a lot of folks would live with it if there was one DRM scheme & it was usable with every device on the market. It still wouldn't be great, but it'd be easier for folks to deal with.

But then Amazon could not have a monopoly.

CCDMan · 11-27-2007, 10:48 AM

I have said this before, but the only way this mess is ever going to be cleared up is by Congress. The problem with that is that right now Congress, and the voting public, are dominated by folks that are mostly "e-stupid". As these folks die off and the no longer e-stupid generations begin to take their place, I think that pressure to fix this will increase and eventually there will be too much voter pressure for Congress to continue to dance to the tune of the content industry. It will take a decade or two, but is inevitable.

In my opinion (and that of a number of experts), the bigger problem than DRM is the current laws that allow copyright extensions to go on forever. Very little becomes public domain anymore. This can be laid directly on the doorstep of Disney and a few other companies with vested interests and is truly BAD for the public. Copyright needs to expire after a set period, no exceptions. That way, we WOULD have more DRM free content, albeit after a few decades.

FixB · 11-27-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Many libraries for example, now issue eBooks with a form of date-limited MobiPocket DRM. You can read the book for so many weeks after its date of issue, and it then stops working.
That seems to me to be a perfectly legitimate use of DRM technology.

I had not tought of this, but as it is only temporary (ie, you won't have the problem of a change of devices and the potentiel loss of paid ebooks), it seems a great use of DRM.
It's the first time I would agree that DRM could be (in this specific case) useful. Houah, I never imagined I would write DRM and useful in the same sentence !

JSWolf · 11-27-2007, 11:44 AM

How is DRM useful to me? How is it useful to you?

Liviu_5 · 11-27-2007, 12:02 PM

One funny thing about authors and drm is how several prominent such went to Baen hand out to e-publish their books once they were out of print or their drm publisher died a well deserved death..

Commercial e-book market - drop in a bucket - of course there many reasons, not only drm but once you can buy a print book and need no device to read it and also you have it for as much as you want, why spend tons of money for a device and then more money for evanescent books.

dugbug · 11-27-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

How is DRM useful to me? How is it useful to you?

Seeing that I want content from authors/publishers (be it music or otherwise) that insist on it, I say its pretty important.

-d

Liviu_5 · 11-27-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugbug

Seeing that I want content from authors/publishers (be it music or otherwise) that insist on it, I say its pretty important.

-d

Who stops anyone from buying a drm-free paper book ?? You want content from authors that insist on drm, just buy their paper books and everyone will be happy.

nekokami · 11-27-2007, 01:25 PM

Y'know, the Baen forums have a list of topics in a FAQ called the "La Brea Tar Pits" where they've simply listed the usual positions taken and advise people to just let these topics quietly decompose. Maybe we ought to have something similar here.

dugbug · 11-27-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

Who stops anyone from buying a drm-free paper book ?? You want content from authors that insist on drm, just buy their paper books and everyone will be happy.

Is a paper book without DRM? I cannot copy it nor can I mass-redistribute it. About the only thing I can do is give it away/lend it (which is a relatively small distribution list).

-d

Nate the great · 11-27-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugbug

Is a paper book without DRM? I cannot copy it nor can I mass-redistribute it. About the only thing I can do is give it away/lend it (which is a relatively small distribution list).

-d

The paper book lacks the DRM that prevents me from:

editing the pbook by removing pages,
editing the pbook by writing in the margin,
making photocopies (in situations covered by fair use),
sharing the pbook with a friend.

Yes, the pbook lacks DRM.

Alisa · 11-27-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugbug

Is a paper book without DRM? I cannot copy it nor can I mass-redistribute it. About the only thing I can do is give it away/lend it (which is a relatively small distribution list).

-d

Yes. Not only because the rights management isn't digital. You can copy and redistribute your book. Typically people don't because it's difficult and expensive so printers don't have to take extra measures to prevent you from doing it.

ghostwheel · 11-27-2007, 03:00 PM

DRM are a very simple thing: a con invented by device makers to lure the publishers into the digital market. Publishers are horrified by the prospects of books and magazines available in digital form. They think it'll break their lucrative business - and it probably will. The process already started with scientific journals. No one will need the middleman. Anyway, there is nothing the publishers can do - the flood is coming, and they know it. In addition, the incentives are huge - Apple in one fell swoop became the major player in the music industry. Everybody wants to make the iPod of books.
So, device makers invented the impossible: "put your books on our devices. We'll make sure that they are non-copyable. We have DRM, a magic snake oil that prevents the reader from reading the book when he wants to copy it, but allows him to read it when he wants to read it. It'll work - you can trust us."
And, luckily the publishers are falling for it, though they don't really have a choice, in the long run.

There is one way to protect the digital books: morals. If people will think it is wrong to copy books instead of buying them, and wrong to keep a copy from the library at home, then the market could survive in a similar form to what it is now. And it doesn't matter if people think it is immoral to copy a book, or if it is immoral to break the DRM and then copy the book. You still need morals to protect the current market. DRM is nothing but a sticker saying "please don't copy this book". Except that it is a huge heavy sticker, that mainly hurts the customers. DRMs will simply disappear once we conned the publishers into the digital market.

11-27-2007, 03:00 PM	#45
ghostwheel Zealot Posts: 133 Karma: 93 Join Date: May 2006 Device: DBoox Max,Galaxy note 10.1 & 3,LE1700 tablet,sony PRS-500,iRex DR1000S	DRM are a very simple thing: a con invented by device makers to lure the publishers into the digital market. Publishers are horrified by the prospects of books and magazines available in digital form. They think it'll break their lucrative business - and it probably will. The process already started with scientific journals. No one will need the middleman. Anyway, there is nothing the publishers can do - the flood is coming, and they know it. In addition, the incentives are huge - Apple in one fell swoop became the major player in the music industry. Everybody wants to make the iPod of books. So, device makers invented the impossible: "put your books on our devices. We'll make sure that they are non-copyable. We have DRM, a magic snake oil that prevents the reader from reading the book when he wants to copy it, but allows him to read it when he wants to read it. It'll work - you can trust us." And, luckily the publishers are falling for it, though they don't really have a choice, in the long run. There is one way to protect the digital books: morals. If people will think it is wrong to copy books instead of buying them, and wrong to keep a copy from the library at home, then the market could survive in a similar form to what it is now. And it doesn't matter if people think it is immoral to copy a book, or if it is immoral to break the DRM and then copy the book. You still need morals to protect the current market. DRM is nothing but a sticker saying "please don't copy this book". Except that it is a huge heavy sticker, that mainly hurts the customers. DRMs will simply disappear once we conned the publishers into the digital market. Last edited by ghostwheel; 11-27-2007 at 03:03 PM. Reason: typo

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11-27-2007, 09:45 AM	#31
hidari MR Drone Posts: 1,613 Karma: 15612282 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: DRONEZONE Device: PB360+, Huawei MP5, Libra H20	DRM.. So I have to pay two times for the same book so a "gifted" writer can get royalties on it....or a company.... So..Should I pay my Plumber every time I flush the toilet for fixing my leak that occured at 2 in the morning and works fine now due to his "gifted" knowledge of plumbing... should he get my royalties as well?

11-27-2007, 09:46 AM	#32
TallMomof2 Kindlephilia Posts: 2,017 Karma: 1139255 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Snowpacolypse 2010 Device: Too many to count	I don't like DRM but if the files are portable between my devices I can live with it.

11-27-2007, 10:48 AM	#35
CCDMan *** Posts: 335 Karma: 5759 Join Date: Mar 2006 Device: ***	I have said this before, but the only way this mess is ever going to be cleared up is by Congress. The problem with that is that right now Congress, and the voting public, are dominated by folks that are mostly "e-stupid". As these folks die off and the no longer e-stupid generations begin to take their place, I think that pressure to fix this will increase and eventually there will be too much voter pressure for Congress to continue to dance to the tune of the content industry. It will take a decade or two, but is inevitable. In my opinion (and that of a number of experts), the bigger problem than DRM is the current laws that allow copyright extensions to go on forever. Very little becomes public domain anymore. This can be laid directly on the doorstep of Disney and a few other companies with vested interests and is truly BAD for the public. Copyright needs to expire after a set period, no exceptions. That way, we WOULD have more DRM free content, albeit after a few decades.

11-27-2007, 11:44 AM	#37
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 74,033 Karma: 129333114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	How is DRM useful to me? How is it useful to you?

11-27-2007, 12:02 PM	#38
Liviu_5 Books and more books Posts: 917 Karma: 69499 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: White Plains, NY, USA Device: Nook Color, Itouch, Nokia770, Sony 650, Sony 700(dead), Ebk(given)	One funny thing about authors and drm is how several prominent such went to Baen hand out to e-publish their books once they were out of print or their drm publisher died a well deserved death.. Commercial e-book market - drop in a bucket - of course there many reasons, not only drm but once you can buy a print book and need no device to read it and also you have it for as much as you want, why spend tons of money for a device and then more money for evanescent books.

11-27-2007, 01:25 PM	#41
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Y'know, the Baen forums have a list of topics in a FAQ called the "La Brea Tar Pits" where they've simply listed the usual positions taken and advise people to just let these topics quietly decompose. Maybe we ought to have something similar here.

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