DRM is necessary and good, stop complaining - Page 2

PHugger · 11-27-2007, 12:25 AM

Markbot, think about it this way -

DRM only has an effect on the customers who actually paid for the content!

Publishers naturally want to stop piracy (this is a good thing IMHO), but they found that this was hard to do. They haven't figured out a way to target the pirates so they settled for their customers. When I purchase a book I've already met all of the copyright, moral, and financial requirements. Why am I then burdened with this onerous DRM?

I am a firm believer that if you make it easy enough to buy, people will buy instead of steal. This has already been proven by the music industry. It's working so well that they are starting to do away with all DRM! Offer a quality product at a reasonable price and make it easy to purchase - you will make money. Don't treat your customers like criminals and they will reward you with their loyalty. I believe that people rise to your expectations - why not expect them to be honest? I have no problem with any DRM that doesn't restrict or limit what I want to legally do with my purchases. There are always ways to get around DRM, but these methods are mostly used by dishonest people. The honest ones are the only ones who are inconvenienced. Hopefully DRM's days are numbered and they will finally target the pirates and leave the customers alone.

PCH

da_jane · 11-27-2007, 12:26 AM

Protecting intellectual property rights is in the US constitution, even before they mention free press.

The purpose of the Copyright Act is not to protect intellectual property -that is a by product. The purpose of the Act is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

AlexC · 11-27-2007, 01:06 AM

Wow, on most sites I'd say get out the popcorn, here comes one heck of a flame war! Here, this is shaping up to be an interesting discussion.

delphidb96 · 11-27-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

I like the motto of hope for the best but prepare for the worst. So...hope that your customers aren't thieves....but just in case they are...DRM.

Oh yes, how quaint! Just presume every customer is a thief and then treat them in that manner. Yep. Great business technique!

You *do* realize that taking such a view is tantamount to choosing to alienate all customers, yes?

I prefer assuming that my product is worth selling and reasonable enough the customers would rather buy than see my product disappear from the market. It's difficult enough in the commercial arena for a business to survive without actively driving customers away with negative attitudes!

Derek

maxk · 11-27-2007, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexC

Wow, on most sites I'd say get out the popcorn, here comes one heck of a flame war! Here, this is shaping up to be an interesting discussion.

I don't plan to discuss further, the research has been done disproving the effectiveness of DRM.

The only holdouts are the DRM makers and a few people who haven't caught up.

OK a few more holdouts than that but it appears to be on the decline

PHugger · 11-27-2007, 07:04 AM

I've been thinking about books and how DRM fits in. These guys are very late to this market of electronic distribution. Books have always been the exception - they were never easy to copy nor (as we are finding now) are the first copies perfect. This is rapidly changing. It has thrust the book publishers back ten years and is forcing them to catch up. You can buy a paper book and read it anywhere. You can loan it to others. You can resell it when you are done. You can even borrow them from a library. Electronic distribution changes all of this. It now becomes very easy to make perfect copies (of the imperfect scans). Publishers don't want you to loan your ebooks to anyone. They want to limit where and how you read them. You can't resell them either. Libraries who embrace ebooks are forced to treat them the same way. This is a major paradigm shift. DRM is simply an attempt to keep things the same. I can't say that I have the answers to piracy, but I'm pretty sure that DRM isn't it.

PCH

rflashman · 11-27-2007, 07:27 AM

I don't mind DRM, if it actually let me use my content. My problem with DRM is just that it limits my content to the ways I want to use it. DRMed video can't play on my XBOX Media Center and DRMed books I bought on my Sony Reader can't come over to my Kindle (I never did finish reading Reagan's dairy...). So until that gets resolved, I see no point to DRM except to rip off the consumer.

HarryT · 11-27-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Oh yes, how quaint! Just presume every customer is a thief and then treat them in that manner. Yep. Great business technique!

You *do* realize that taking such a view is tantamount to choosing to alienate all customers, yes?

I prefer assuming that my product is worth selling and reasonable enough the customers would rather buy than see my product disappear from the market. It's difficult enough in the commercial arena for a business to survive without actively driving customers away with negative attitudes!

Derek

There are, however, different types of DRM, some uses of which are perfectly legitimate.

Many libraries for example, now issue eBooks with a form of date-limited MobiPocket DRM. You can read the book for so many weeks after its date of issue, and it then stops working.

That seems to me to be a perfectly legitimate use of DRM technology.

micomicon · 11-27-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

As we've seen with the music industry, intellectual property in electronic form can be successful if it has DRM.....and is a disaster without DRM.

Actually, the facts suggest otherwise: the music industry is already moving away from DRM. The latest example: Deutsche Grammophon, one of the oldest and most respected record companies in the world, is getting ready to launch its new online MP3 store. The music will be sold DRM-free. Read about it here.

DG is joining two of the world's largest online music stores (Apple and Amazon) in selling music DRM-free. Why would they do this if going DRM-free were a "disaster"?

HappyMartin · 11-27-2007, 08:53 AM

I believe that it is only of mild interest and little relevance to compare e books and p books in terms of lending them out, reselling them and so on. It is now an entirely new thing that requires a fresh perspective without referring too much to the past.

Imagine we never had p books before, sure it takes some mental gymnastics but it is a healthy and helpful exercise. What are the requirements. Authors need to make a living, people want to read. We want to deliver the material to people so that they can read it in comfort and conveniently.

As to DRM, there could be many approaches. How about the more DRM the lower the price? Some books I delete as soon as I finish them, off the reader and off the PC. I did this with Swarm and Polaris recently. Good hard DRM and a lower price would be great for those types of books. Pay more money and get less restrictive DRM for other books you may want to hold onto. This approach works for photographic models and many images. You describe the usage and pay accordingly. Make it flexible and pay for what you need. Ownership is an illusion, it is all about usage.

Just an idea above but we do need to start looking at innovative solutions that suit us all

markbot · 11-27-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da_jane

Protecting intellectual property rights is in the US constitution, even before they mention free press.

The purpose of the Copyright Act is not to protect intellectual property -that is a by product. The purpose of the Act is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

semantics

igorsk · 11-27-2007, 08:59 AM

Ahaha, I like this guy

JSWolf · 11-27-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

semantics

Do you work in the publishing industry?

slayda · 11-27-2007, 09:15 AM

Somebody tell me again how to give negative Karma!

hidari · 11-27-2007, 09:41 AM

Marbot have to give you credit for going into snake filled waters. I assume you expected a harsh whiplash from the masses. I do not like DRM but it is a fact of life at the moment. I only have a problem with your idea that we should "protedc the smartest and most creative pople in society" by whose measure...?

Most books on Amazon you should use as toilet paper not reading paper..

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

So, let's all applaud Amazon's efforts to protect the smartest and most creative people in society so that they can continue to live off of the intellectual property.

And I like how they did the DRM for the Kindle also. Looks robust.

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11-27-2007, 12:25 AM	#16
PHugger Connoisseur Posts: 94 Karma: 8443 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NJ Device: Kindle 3G, Sony PRS-505	Markbot, think about it this way - DRM only has an effect on the customers who actually paid for the content! Publishers naturally want to stop piracy (this is a good thing IMHO), but they found that this was hard to do. They haven't figured out a way to target the pirates so they settled for their customers. When I purchase a book I've already met all of the copyright, moral, and financial requirements. Why am I then burdened with this onerous DRM? I am a firm believer that if you make it easy enough to buy, people will buy instead of steal. This has already been proven by the music industry. It's working so well that they are starting to do away with all DRM! Offer a quality product at a reasonable price and make it easy to purchase - you will make money. Don't treat your customers like criminals and they will reward you with their loyalty. I believe that people rise to your expectations - why not expect them to be honest? I have no problem with any DRM that doesn't restrict or limit what I want to legally do with my purchases. There are always ways to get around DRM, but these methods are mostly used by dishonest people. The honest ones are the only ones who are inconvenienced. Hopefully DRM's days are numbered and they will finally target the pirates and leave the customers alone. PCH

11-27-2007, 12:26 AM	#17
da_jane Evangelist Posts: 405 Karma: 692 Join Date: Sep 2006 Device: Samsung Galaxy Note 3 \| Kindle Paperwhite \| iPad Mini	Protecting intellectual property rights is in the US constitution, even before they mention free press. The purpose of the Copyright Act is not to protect intellectual property -that is a by product. The purpose of the Act is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

11-27-2007, 01:06 AM	#18
AlexC Connoisseur Posts: 58 Karma: 737 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vancouver Device: Apple iPad; iRex iLiad	Wow, on most sites I'd say get out the popcorn, here comes one heck of a flame war! Here, this is shaping up to be an interesting discussion.

11-27-2007, 07:04 AM	#21
PHugger Connoisseur Posts: 94 Karma: 8443 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NJ Device: Kindle 3G, Sony PRS-505	I've been thinking about books and how DRM fits in. These guys are very late to this market of electronic distribution. Books have always been the exception - they were never easy to copy nor (as we are finding now) are the first copies perfect. This is rapidly changing. It has thrust the book publishers back ten years and is forcing them to catch up. You can buy a paper book and read it anywhere. You can loan it to others. You can resell it when you are done. You can even borrow them from a library. Electronic distribution changes all of this. It now becomes very easy to make perfect copies (of the imperfect scans). Publishers don't want you to loan your ebooks to anyone. They want to limit where and how you read them. You can't resell them either. Libraries who embrace ebooks are forced to treat them the same way. This is a major paradigm shift. DRM is simply an attempt to keep things the same. I can't say that I have the answers to piracy, but I'm pretty sure that DRM isn't it. PCH

11-27-2007, 07:27 AM	#22
rflashman Zealot Posts: 107 Karma: 408 Join Date: Jul 2007 Device: Amazon Kindle, Archos 605 Wifi, & Sony PRS-500	I don't mind DRM, if it actually let me use my content. My problem with DRM is just that it limits my content to the ways I want to use it. DRMed video can't play on my XBOX Media Center and DRMed books I bought on my Sony Reader can't come over to my Kindle (I never did finish reading Reagan's dairy...). So until that gets resolved, I see no point to DRM except to rip off the consumer.

11-27-2007, 08:53 AM	#25
HappyMartin Martin Kristiansen Posts: 1,546 Karma: 8480958 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Johannesburg Device: Kindle International Ipad 2	I believe that it is only of mild interest and little relevance to compare e books and p books in terms of lending them out, reselling them and so on. It is now an entirely new thing that requires a fresh perspective without referring too much to the past. Imagine we never had p books before, sure it takes some mental gymnastics but it is a healthy and helpful exercise. What are the requirements. Authors need to make a living, people want to read. We want to deliver the material to people so that they can read it in comfort and conveniently. As to DRM, there could be many approaches. How about the more DRM the lower the price? Some books I delete as soon as I finish them, off the reader and off the PC. I did this with Swarm and Polaris recently. Good hard DRM and a lower price would be great for those types of books. Pay more money and get less restrictive DRM for other books you may want to hold onto. This approach works for photographic models and many images. You describe the usage and pay accordingly. Make it flexible and pay for what you need. Ownership is an illusion, it is all about usage. Just an idea above but we do need to start looking at innovative solutions that suit us all

11-27-2007, 08:59 AM	#27
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Ahaha, I like this guy

11-27-2007, 09:15 AM	#29
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	Somebody tell me again how to give negative Karma!

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