Do you consider PDF to be a legitimate "e-book" format? Why or why not? - Page 9

DaleDe · 01-30-2008, 01:07 PM

Well I haven't voted yet but I did crystallize my position after the discussion. I did not have an opinion before we started but have decided that tagged PDF is ok if the software were ok but on more platforms it is not.

yvanleterrible · 01-30-2008, 05:15 PM

If you do further tallying of those who voted against PDF I'm ready to bet a shot of karma that most of us are eink reader owners.

DMcCunney · 01-30-2008, 07:00 PM

I don't believe I voted, but my feelings are mixed.

I think PDF is a perfectly valid format, if you have an appropriate device to display them. Most of the nay sayers have devices that don't do it well.

My ebook reader is a Palm OS PDA with a 320x480 screen. I can read PDFs -- there is a superb open source Palm OS PDF viewer called PalmPDF, based on a Palm shared library port of XPDF. But that small screen is a deal breaker for a lot of PDFs that don't reflow well, and side-scrolling to read a page is a PITA. So I read PDFs on the PDA only if no other format exists for the content.

That's okay. I don't expect all content I read to be something readable in that form factor, and there is some content I wouldn't want to view on that size screen, even if I could. I have a 19" monitor on my desktop in 1600x1200 resolution for a reason...

My issue isn't with PDFs as such: it's with content that is only provided as PDF. A lot of the stuff that's out there in PDF form is stuff that could reflow to fit whatever screen without harming readability, save that the producers didn't offer it in a format that did that.
______
Dennis

Steven Lyle Jordan · 01-31-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

If you do further tallying of those who voted against PDF I'm ready to bet a shot of karma that most of us are eink reader owners.

An interesting parallel, since I'd say none of the e-ink readers are optimized for textbook use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I think PDF is a perfectly valid format, if you have an appropriate device to display them. Most of the nay sayers have devices that don't do it well.

It probably is as simple as that.

NatCh · 01-31-2008, 11:44 AM

I've been dreaming of an A4/letter sized e-ink device for some time. With a touch screen and notation capture (handwriting recognition would be pure gravy) it'd be a killer app for folks who handle a lot of PDF dox: lawyers (yeah, I know, but they have lots of money to spend), teachers, business persons, medical personnel ... the list goes on and on.

Think how many such devices would sell to a business environment! Yes, they'd be terribly expensive, but consider that businesses pay much more for stuff than typical individuals can/will -- where would the PC revolution be without businesses buying enough to bring the prices down where we could afford to have the things ourselves?

And the detail that it would be good for reading books fixed-formatted in that size is just an incidental detail.

I'm just all tingly merely thinking about it.

kovidgoyal · 01-31-2008, 12:19 PM

I still say PDF is bad, bad bad, for all the reason I've outlined before.

NatCh · 01-31-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

I still say PDF is bad, bad bad, for all the reason I've outlined before.

I might go for "unsuitable, unsuitable, unsuitable."

Steven Lyle Jordan · 01-31-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

I still say PDF is bad, bad bad, for all the reason I've outlined before.

I think everyone here knew we wouldn't be changing your mind...

DaleDe · 01-31-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

An interesting parallel, since I'd say none of the e-ink readers are optimized for textbook use.

It probably is as simple as that.

Well, those with iLiads do pretty well with PDF so I suspect the naysayers own 6" E-ink devices and none of those do reflow currently.

dale

Steven Lyle Jordan · 02-01-2008, 11:08 AM

Yes, well, I was thinking that as textbooks often use full color, and the Iliad is B/W, it was not that well suited to e-textbooks either. But you're right, in cases where color is not important to the textbook, the Iliad does a fine job.

View Poll Results: Do you consider PDF to be a legitimate "e-book" format? (please elaborate b
Yes	37	38.14%
No	55	56.70%
I haven't formed an opinion on the matter, but would like to see the poll results	5	5.15%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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01-30-2008, 01:07 PM	#121
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	Well I haven't voted yet but I did crystallize my position after the discussion. I did not have an opinion before we started but have decided that tagged PDF is ok if the software were ok but on more platforms it is not.

01-30-2008, 05:15 PM	#122
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	If you do further tallying of those who voted against PDF I'm ready to bet a shot of karma that most of us are eink reader owners.

01-30-2008, 07:00 PM	#123
DMcCunney New York Editor Posts: 6,384 Karma: 16540415 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: PalmTX, Pocket eDGe, Alcatel Fierce 4, RCA Viking Pro 10, Nexus 7	I don't believe I voted, but my feelings are mixed. I think PDF is a perfectly valid format, if you have an appropriate device to display them. Most of the nay sayers have devices that don't do it well. My ebook reader is a Palm OS PDA with a 320x480 screen. I can read PDFs -- there is a superb open source Palm OS PDF viewer called PalmPDF, based on a Palm shared library port of XPDF. But that small screen is a deal breaker for a lot of PDFs that don't reflow well, and side-scrolling to read a page is a PITA. So I read PDFs on the PDA only if no other format exists for the content. That's okay. I don't expect all content I read to be something readable in that form factor, and there is some content I wouldn't want to view on that size screen, even if I could. I have a 19" monitor on my desktop in 1600x1200 resolution for a reason... My issue isn't with PDFs as such: it's with content that is only provided as PDF. A lot of the stuff that's out there in PDF form is stuff that could reflow to fit whatever screen without harming readability, save that the producers didn't offer it in a format that did that. ______ Dennis

01-31-2008, 11:44 AM	#125
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	I've been dreaming of an A4/letter sized e-ink device for some time. With a touch screen and notation capture (handwriting recognition would be pure gravy) it'd be a killer app for folks who handle a lot of PDF dox: lawyers (yeah, I know, but they have lots of money to spend), teachers, business persons, medical personnel ... the list goes on and on. Think how many such devices would sell to a business environment! Yes, they'd be terribly expensive, but consider that businesses pay much more for stuff than typical individuals can/will -- where would the PC revolution be without businesses buying enough to bring the prices down where we could afford to have the things ourselves? And the detail that it would be good for reading books fixed-formatted in that size is just an incidental detail. I'm just all tingly merely thinking about it.

01-31-2008, 12:19 PM	#126
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,860 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	I still say PDF is bad, bad bad, for all the reason I've outlined before.

02-01-2008, 11:08 AM	#130
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Yes, well, I was thinking that as textbooks often use full color, and the Iliad is B/W, it was not that well suited to e-textbooks either. But you're right, in cases where color is not important to the textbook, the Iliad does a fine job.

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