Soccer player causes e-book loan explosion

owly · 12-30-2011, 04:18 AM

Something very interesting is happening in e-book Sweden. One book "Jag är Zlatan", a new biography about Swedens most famous soccer player, has tipped the scales of Library e-book lending. When it comes to lending e-books the system in Sweden is that the library pays 20 Kr. ($3) per downloaded book via the company Elib. Now this was fine when loans counted in the hundreds but libraries have become increasingly worried that the sword of increased e-book lending would fall and now that sword is hanging by a thread. The example that is being used is that the paper version was loaned about 350 times from the Stockholm Public Library but the e-version about 5 times that! The short term measures around the country are lending restrictions and even full-stops on e-book lending. As the old system clearly is flawed the Swedish library community is trying to find a new model. Go the Overdrive-way, with e-books bought and lended like paper books or is there another model yet to be realized? Hopefully this year will tell..

CyGuy · 12-30-2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by owly

Something very interesting is happening in e-book Sweden. One book "Jag är Zlatan", a new biography about Swedens most famous soccer player, has tipped the scales of Library e-book lending. When it comes to lending e-books the system in Sweden is that the library pays 20 Kr. ($3) per downloaded book via the company Elib. Now this was fine when loans counted in the hundreds but libraries have become increasingly worried that the sword of increased e-book lending would fall and now that sword is hanging by a thread. The example that is being used is that the paper version was loaned about 350 times from the Stockholm Public Library but the e-version about 5 times that! The short term measures around the country are lending restrictions and even full-stops on e-book lending. As the old system clearly is flawed the Swedish library community is trying to find a new model. Go the Overdrive-way, with e-books bought and lended like paper books or is there another model yet to be realized? Hopefully this year will tell..

I find myself really confused by this. Why would they pay anyone $3 to loan out a book they already purchased? That does not make sense. Are they paying this $3 fee when they loan out the paper book? If this is a public library does this mean the tax payers are footing the bill for this $3 charge? Seriously confused here, what am I missing?

Giggleton · 12-30-2011, 12:57 PM

Apparently in some countries, every time a book is loaned out from the library a fee is sent to the "creator" of the book.

Barcey · 12-30-2011, 12:58 PM

I don't see a problem with lending limits for e-books based on the libraries budget. Paper books have lending limits based on how many physical copies you buy. The "Overdrive way" just mimics how the paper books have historically been loaned.

It should be relatively easy to set a maximum loans per month parameter on an ebook based on the libraries budget and people would just have to wait like they do for paper books. I don't know why it would be necessary to adopt the Overdrive system.

CyGuy · 12-30-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Apparently in some countries, every time a book is loaned out from the library a fee is sent to the "creator" of the book.

Who the heck fell for that? Once the book is purchased there are no fees associated with loaning out the book. I can't imagine why anyone would pay a fee for something they already own.

rogue_librarian · 12-30-2011, 01:46 PM

Yes, there are royalties for the author of a book when a library loans out his books, too, in many countries, for both paper and ebooks. This in itself is not a problem (we're talking about cents here, really), but $3 is insane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

Once the book is purchased there are no fees associated with loaning out the book. I can't imagine why anyone would pay a fee for something they already own.

Because it's the law. It also applies to pbooks that you buy outright.

CyGuy · 12-30-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Because it's the law. It also applies to pbooks that you buy outright.

You are claiming that if I purchase a pbook, read it myself, and then loan it to a friend I owe a "fee" of some kind to someone? I would like to think that no one has ever passed such a ridiculous law in any country, and I certainly hope that no one would abide by such a law. I must have misunderstood what you meant because that just doesn't make sense.

rogue_librarian · 12-30-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

You are claiming that if I purchase a pbook, read it myself, and then loan it to a friend I owe a "fee" of some kind to someone?

Duh, no. It applies to public libraries only. It's called "Public Lending Right", and Wikipedia has more (as always). The going rate in the UK was 6p (less than a dime) per loan last time I checked.

CyGuy · 12-30-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Duh, no. It applies to public libraries only. It's called "Public Lending Right", and Wikipedia has more (as always). The going rate in the UK was 6p (less than a dime) per loan last time I checked.

I just read the article and I find this very disturbing. The library should simply purchase the book for full price and then make it available to loan without paying any recurring fee. I can't believe that the tax payers are expected to fund this recurring fee, for a product they already funded to purchase! Wow, just wow. I sure hope they don't get away with this in the US.

rogue_librarian · 12-30-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I sure hope they don't get away with this in the US.

It sure beats "wearing out" the ebook after 26 lending cycles in my book...

CyGuy · 12-30-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

It sure beats "wearing out" the ebook after 26 lending cycles in my book...

If it wasn't so disturbing I would find that humorous. The mistake they made is that they appear to have purchased a "license" instead of a "book". That should be avoided at all costs, purchase the book not a license and all of that nonsense disappears. As much as I hate to see new laws passed this is a case where publishers who attempt acts like this should be prevented by law, even if it means new laws have to be passed.

Giggleton · 12-30-2011, 03:05 PM

This is not disturbing, this is indeed the future. All books everywhere, no need for a centralized anything. A distributed cloud, organized by an international consortium, accessed through taxes? Containing all uploads...

HarryT · 12-30-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I just read the article and I find this very disturbing. The library should simply purchase the book for full price and then make it available to loan without paying any recurring fee. I can't believe that the tax payers are expected to fund this recurring fee, for a product they already funded to purchase! Wow, just wow. I sure hope they don't get away with this in the US.

The PLR is a form of compensation for authors for the fact that people can borrow their books from the library, rather than having to buy a copy themselves. It was introduced, in the UK, when changes to copyright law removed an author's right to refuse to have their book in the library system.

It's not a vast sum of money; an author receives about 6p (about US 10c) per loan, with a maximum payment to any one author of about £3000 in any given year (about $5000).

PLR payments go directly to the author; it's not paid to the publisher of the book.

I believe that most people would regard the PLR as a good thing. It exists in most western nations.

BWinmill · 12-30-2011, 03:29 PM

I was looking up the situation in Canada and it's, erm, interesting. It appears to be entirely opt-in (i.e. the author can choose to lend their books royalty free) and it is based on a sliding scale ("new titles" earn more, presumably because they want to encourage the creation of new works). I wonder how such ideas would carry over if implemented in copyright law since PLR are not legislated in Canada.

SeaKing · 12-30-2011, 03:51 PM

In a lot Socialistic countries especially in the Nordic countries where they have long fed off the fatted calf of the North Sea Oil Reserves (which are now disappearing) they had a lot of these kind of laws to protect (i.e. fatten "artists"). Artists being authors, painters, etc.

The government would buy painters works at some "established - by the art community - price" and actually store these works in air conditioned warehouses. After a while these storage facilities got quite large and numerous.

There was an attempt in this country with the rise of the online used book trade (i.e. Amazon, B&N) to pay authors a fee (or a share) of the price of a used book when it was sold. This was knocked down pretty quickly. One example for not doing it, was the idea of paying Ford each time an old Ford was traded. In this country that is a ridiculous idea, but not so in the EU which is strongly influenced by the Nordic countries.

In America unfortunately, communities are shutting libraries, or curtailing their services and so no one will be willing to pay anyone for lending a book. Still in fairlness I see a limit of some kind as to how many times an eBook can be lent in a given period of time. This limit would be established by looking at the frequency of lending for Pbooks. Say a popular Pbook might be lent 30 times in a year on average (and usually in the first year and only then), then I would think that would be the guide for eBooks. After 30 times, the ebook would be locked down until the next year, and then the counter restarted.

Personally I own 5 old (sometimes very old) (I call them my babies) clunkers. A small helicopter, a small plane, a small fishing trawler, a medium sized houseboat, and a small travel trailer. I don't know how many times these items have been bought and sold.
One item I bought brand new. A truck.

Why the heck does he have so much rolling, floating, and flying stock you might ask.
I make money with the helicopter and plane. The houseboat I live in on a lake and river, and the trawler, I am converting to live in on the sea. The trailer I live in when I know I am going to be traveling to a job for a period of time and it is cheaper than renting. My truck also has a camper cover that I can put on it for that same reason.

The idea of paying the manufacturers each time these old items have been sold and bought is plain stupid.

12-30-2011, 04:18 AM	#1
owly Guru Posts: 729 Karma: 3822612 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sweden Device: Paperwhite 2, Kobo Aura H2O	Soccer player causes e-book loan explosion Something very interesting is happening in e-book Sweden. One book "Jag är Zlatan", a new biography about Swedens most famous soccer player, has tipped the scales of Library e-book lending. When it comes to lending e-books the system in Sweden is that the library pays 20 Kr. ($3) per downloaded book via the company Elib. Now this was fine when loans counted in the hundreds but libraries have become increasingly worried that the sword of increased e-book lending would fall and now that sword is hanging by a thread. The example that is being used is that the paper version was loaned about 350 times from the Stockholm Public Library but the e-version about 5 times that! The short term measures around the country are lending restrictions and even full-stops on e-book lending. As the old system clearly is flawed the Swedish library community is trying to find a new model. Go the Overdrive-way, with e-books bought and lended like paper books or is there another model yet to be realized? Hopefully this year will tell..

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12-30-2011, 12:57 PM	#3
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	Apparently in some countries, every time a book is loaned out from the library a fee is sent to the "creator" of the book.

12-30-2011, 12:58 PM	#4
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	I don't see a problem with lending limits for e-books based on the libraries budget. Paper books have lending limits based on how many physical copies you buy. The "Overdrive way" just mimics how the paper books have historically been loaned. It should be relatively easy to set a maximum loans per month parameter on an ebook based on the libraries budget and people would just have to wait like they do for paper books. I don't know why it would be necessary to adopt the Overdrive system.

12-30-2011, 03:05 PM	#12
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	This is not disturbing, this is indeed the future. All books everywhere, no need for a centralized anything. A distributed cloud, organized by an international consortium, accessed through taxes? Containing all uploads...

12-30-2011, 03:29 PM	#14
BWinmill Nameless Being	I was looking up the situation in Canada and it's, erm, interesting. It appears to be entirely opt-in (i.e. the author can choose to lend their books royalty free) and it is based on a sliding scale ("new titles" earn more, presumably because they want to encourage the creation of new works). I wonder how such ideas would carry over if implemented in copyright law since PLR are not legislated in Canada.

12-30-2011, 03:51 PM	#15
SeaKing Frequent Flier Posts: 1,282 Karma: 2058993297 Join Date: Oct 2011 Device: KB kindle aboard, Galx Tab 7.0 Plus, trying out Droid 1 as mini-tab	In a lot Socialistic countries especially in the Nordic countries where they have long fed off the fatted calf of the North Sea Oil Reserves (which are now disappearing) they had a lot of these kind of laws to protect (i.e. fatten "artists"). Artists being authors, painters, etc. The government would buy painters works at some "established - by the art community - price" and actually store these works in air conditioned warehouses. After a while these storage facilities got quite large and numerous. There was an attempt in this country with the rise of the online used book trade (i.e. Amazon, B&N) to pay authors a fee (or a share) of the price of a used book when it was sold. This was knocked down pretty quickly. One example for not doing it, was the idea of paying Ford each time an old Ford was traded. In this country that is a ridiculous idea, but not so in the EU which is strongly influenced by the Nordic countries. In America unfortunately, communities are shutting libraries, or curtailing their services and so no one will be willing to pay anyone for lending a book. Still in fairlness I see a limit of some kind as to how many times an eBook can be lent in a given period of time. This limit would be established by looking at the frequency of lending for Pbooks. Say a popular Pbook might be lent 30 times in a year on average (and usually in the first year and only then), then I would think that would be the guide for eBooks. After 30 times, the ebook would be locked down until the next year, and then the counter restarted. Personally I own 5 old (sometimes very old) (I call them my babies) clunkers. A small helicopter, a small plane, a small fishing trawler, a medium sized houseboat, and a small travel trailer. I don't know how many times these items have been bought and sold. One item I bought brand new. A truck. Why the heck does he have so much rolling, floating, and flying stock you might ask. I make money with the helicopter and plane. The houseboat I live in on a lake and river, and the trawler, I am converting to live in on the sea. The trailer I live in when I know I am going to be traveling to a job for a period of time and it is cheaper than renting. My truck also has a camper cover that I can put on it for that same reason. The idea of paying the manufacturers each time these old items have been sold and bought is plain stupid.