How to handle 'Tis and 'Twas

AlexBell · 08-03-2011, 04:38 AM

I accept that this may be thought to be a trivial question, but I'm just a trifle obsessional.

The background is that I'm converting 'The Wild Geese' by Stanley J. Weyman from Gutenberg HTML to ePub. The book was published in 1908 and is set in Ireland at the time of George 1, and the Gutenberg HTML has straight quotes which I'm converting to curly quotes by hand.

The text is replete with 'Tis and 'Twas and some other words with an initial apostrophe. Should the apostrophe lean to the left or to the right? I've been making then lean to the left so far, and think that looks better.

colinsky · 08-03-2011, 04:43 AM

Jellby · 08-03-2011, 05:32 AM

A curly apostrophe is always the same shape, regardless of where it is placed; that's the same shape as the common closing single quote, or a comma.

It is only "inverted" whet it is not an apostrophe at all, but an opening single quote.

AlexBell · 08-04-2011, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

A curly apostrophe is always the same shape, regardless of where it is placed; that's the same shape as the common closing single quote, or a comma.

It is only "inverted" whet it is not an apostrophe at all, but an opening single quote.

Rats! I've got to first proof reading stage, so now I'll have to go back and change them.

Thanks anyway.

Is there a manual anywhere that has this kind of information so I don't make a mistake like this again?

Faster · 08-05-2011, 04:11 PM

What app are you using to proof read the html?
If it's MS Word the following will convert the straight quotes (single and double) to curly quotes -
Open a copy of the html file in Word
Go to Tools - AutoCorrect Options - AutoFormat As You Type
Check "Straight quotes" with "smart quotes", click OK
CTRL H for Find/Replace
In the Find box type a " and in the Replace box type the same "
Click Replace All
Then do the same for single quotes, ' with '.

All the quote marks will now be curly.
Other word processors will have an equivalent operation.
Beware of changing the quote type whilst in some code views (eg VBA) as it can cause problems. The syntax demands straight quotes.

Jellby · 08-06-2011, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faster

All the quote marks will now be curly.

But will they face the right way? What happens if you have something like: "Keep 'em comin' fast"? (Those are both apostrophes, not single quotes.)

Faster · 08-06-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

But will they face the right way? What happens if you have something like: "Keep 'em comin' fast"? (Those are both apostrophes, not single quotes.)

You now deselect Autoformat As You Type.

Search for:

Code:

Find: 	'[A-z ]@'

and manually change the first one.

Jellby · 08-07-2011, 03:37 AM

So, at the end it all comes to manual checking

AlexBell · 08-07-2011, 04:39 AM

Thanks to you both. I guess everyone has their own methods.

I don't have Word; I use OpenOffice.org for text documents.

I use the Coffee Cup HTML editor for HTML, which gives me Find Next, Replace, and Replace All options for find and replace. So for example for " I set it to replace with &ldqo; and for if it's an opening " choose Replace and if it's a closing " choose Find Next - which should of course be another opening ". Then I do the same thing but set it to replace " with ” And then I check to see if I've missed any. As Jellby wrote it all comes down to manual checking.

Toxaris · 08-08-2011, 01:40 PM

Actually, usually the quotes face the correct way I think. Not in dutch though... No problem however, I have a S&R macro to run all kind of corrections.

I know that Atlantis also can convert to smart/curly quotes. I don't know if they do get it right.

shall1028 · 08-13-2011, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

It is only "inverted" whet it is not an apostrophe at all, but an opening single quote.

...or when it is part of Hawaiian words.

Jellby · 08-13-2011, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shall1028

...or when it is part of Hawaiian words.

Well, yes... or other Polynesian languages, but then it's not an apostrope, but something else (&# 699;)

Or the transliteration of the Hebrew/Arabic ayin/ayn (&# 703;)

Or a Greek rough breathing (&# 788; &# 8190;)

charleski · 08-13-2011, 10:11 AM

To set apostrophes properly in ePubs, see
http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2003/07...curse_of_apos/
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#C_16

pholy · 08-13-2011, 01:33 PM

Oh, D..n! I thought I was nearly finished proofing three books full of "mount'n boy" talk, and all the apostrophes are & # 8217; instead of & # 39; - I blame the quoter program I found. It has another problem as well, so now I'll have to dive in and relearn lexx.

Yeah, I'm a perfectionist too. Too many years of programming, I guess.

Jellby · 08-14-2011, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pholy

Oh, D..n! I thought I was nearly finished proofing three books full of "mount'n boy" talk, and all the apostrophes are & # 8217; instead of & # 39; - I blame the quoter program I found.

That's fine, the typographically good apostrophe is &# 8217; (same as &#rsquo;), while &# 39; (or ') is the straight, ugly apostrophe or single quote, which can be mostly written just as '.

The pages mentioned by charleski are about the use of the straight apostrophe in HTML, but ePUB uses XHTML, so ' can be used (though, as I mentioned, is mostly unneeded).

08-03-2011, 04:38 AM	#1
AlexBell Wizard Posts: 3,413 Karma: 13369310 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Launceston, Tasmania Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet	How to handle 'Tis and 'Twas I accept that this may be thought to be a trivial question, but I'm just a trifle obsessional. The background is that I'm converting 'The Wild Geese' by Stanley J. Weyman from Gutenberg HTML to ePub. The book was published in 1908 and is set in Ireland at the time of George 1, and the Gutenberg HTML has straight quotes which I'm converting to curly quotes by hand. The text is replete with 'Tis and 'Twas and some other words with an initial apostrophe. Should the apostrophe lean to the left or to the right? I've been making then lean to the left so far, and think that looks better.

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08-03-2011, 04:43 AM	#2
colinsky Addict Posts: 233 Karma: 3232318 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Sony PRS-300, PRS-T1, PRS-T3

08-03-2011, 05:32 AM	#3
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,515 Karma: 18512745 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	A curly apostrophe is always the same shape, regardless of where it is placed; that's the same shape as the common closing single quote, or a comma. It is only "inverted" whet it is not an apostrophe at all, but an opening single quote.

08-05-2011, 04:11 PM	#5
Faster Connoisseur Posts: 61 Karma: 12096 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Tasmania Device: Sony PRS 650	What app are you using to proof read the html? If it's MS Word the following will convert the straight quotes (single and double) to curly quotes - Open a copy of the html file in Word Go to Tools - AutoCorrect Options - AutoFormat As You Type Check "Straight quotes" with "smart quotes", click OK CTRL H for Find/Replace In the Find box type a " and in the Replace box type the same " Click Replace All Then do the same for single quotes, ' with '. All the quote marks will now be curly. Other word processors will have an equivalent operation. Beware of changing the quote type whilst in some code views (eg VBA) as it can cause problems. The syntax demands straight quotes.

08-07-2011, 03:37 AM	#8
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,515 Karma: 18512745 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	So, at the end it all comes to manual checking

08-07-2011, 04:39 AM	#9
AlexBell Wizard Posts: 3,413 Karma: 13369310 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Launceston, Tasmania Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet	Thanks to you both. I guess everyone has their own methods. I don't have Word; I use OpenOffice.org for text documents. I use the Coffee Cup HTML editor for HTML, which gives me Find Next, Replace, and Replace All options for find and replace. So for example for " I set it to replace with &ldqo; and for if it's an opening " choose Replace and if it's a closing " choose Find Next - which should of course be another opening ". Then I do the same thing but set it to replace " with ” And then I check to see if I've missed any. As Jellby wrote it all comes down to manual checking.

08-08-2011, 01:40 PM	#10
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	Actually, usually the quotes face the correct way I think. Not in dutch though... No problem however, I have a S&R macro to run all kind of corrections. I know that Atlantis also can convert to smart/curly quotes. I don't know if they do get it right.

08-13-2011, 10:11 AM	#13
charleski Wizard Posts: 1,196 Karma: 1281258 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505	To set apostrophes properly in ePubs, see http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2003/07...curse_of_apos/ http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#C_16

08-13-2011, 01:33 PM	#14
pholy Booklegger Posts: 1,801 Karma: 7999816 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Device: BeBook(1 & 2010), PEZ, PRS-505, Kobo BT, PRS-T1, Playbook, Kobo Touch	Oh, D..n! I thought I was nearly finished proofing three books full of "mount'n boy" talk, and all the apostrophes are & # 8217; instead of & # 39; - I blame the quoter program I found. It has another problem as well, so now I'll have to dive in and relearn lexx. Yeah, I'm a perfectionist too. Too many years of programming, I guess.

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