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Old 04-19-2013, 04:53 AM   #271
Katsunami
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I find this strange. The company seems to sell more, despite the shrinking PC-market and unpopularity of Windows 8, they make more profit, and still it's not good enough. I'll never understand shareholders.

The biggest problem is: what happens if Microsoft DOES fail?

Apple almost failed around 1997, just before they got Steve Jobs back, and he got them back on track with regard to profitability. To be honest though, Apple only has a market share of 10% with regard to desktop and notebook computers (in Europe), and in companies this percentage is much lower, except for those that wish to use some Apple-only software.

You can like Microsoft or hate them, but seeing them die and crumble as some (IMHO) short-sighted people want would be a *very* bad thing for our current-day world. Many computing tasks that are now taken for granted will just become impossible, for a very long time, as some of those tasks require either Microsoft software, or Windows-only software for which there is no suitable replacement on the Mac or Linux. Some systems are moving to the web, as Webapps, but there are many companies and people that do not wish to rely on technology outside of their own control, and some applications are quite unfit to be rewritten as webapplications. The more performance that is required, the less change an application will be a webapp.

Imagine Microsoft failing, and Windows grind to a halt, with no version being developed anymore after Windows 9 or so. There are so many Windows-only programs in use throughout the world, programs that are needed by huge companies to do their business, that the mind is repelled from this scenario.

Microsoft failing after 2020 with no new Windows version in sight would plunge the entire world in an indescribable computing crisis.

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IBM moved to the server market years ago by selling out its consumer division HP and Dell are also moving towards it and cutting their consumer products.
In that case, it seems that we, the consumers, will be left with underpowered crap systems in due time. I hope not.

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So what we are seeing is not the end of Microsoft but the slow death of Windows and native os in general. That is a future I am scared off as to me in that future opensource will die small time developers will become irrelevant as most software will run in the cloud that means only large corporation like Google, IBM, Microsoft, Apple will be able to run or afford to run large servers for any software to run.
I'll NEVER run my main software in the cloud. I don't even trust Amazon (or any other company) with a few books, let alone that I trust someone software that I NEED. The only reason I accept activation with some software (Windows, Photoshop, and recently, Scrivener) is because there is either no suitable alternative exists (Windows, Photoshop) or loosing the software would only have a small financial impact and would not be a problem with regard to tasks I need to really get done (Scrivener).

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And why not continue to use them with the (WinXP) virtual machine?
It can be done of course, and I do still have an unused Windows XP retail license from days past, but I'd rather run a heavy program such as Photoshop directly in the main operating system. Running it using a virtual machine and an ancient OS would be the very last resort.

Last edited by Katsunami; 04-19-2013 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:16 AM   #272
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Yeah, a few billion in profits is bad...

You know, our world is sick.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:45 AM   #273
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Yeah, a few billion in profits is bad...

You know, our world is sick.
This is the entire problem of the crisis in Europe.

There are companies over here that are *firing* people, even while they are making 4+ billions of profit each year. Why do they fire people? Simple. Because analysts and shareholders expected profits to be 5+ billion. That's just sick.

More and more, the money is flowing towards a few overly rich companies and people, while there's not enough money for the not-so-rich. The old saying "money makes money" is quite true, as you can use your money to set up operations to make more. That money must come from somewhere. Naturally, it comes from the people who cannot set up such operations.

As soon as this trend stops (again, as it did in 19th and 20th century, for a time), and normal people have money to spend again, then many problems will magically resolve itself.

Not with regard to the design of the Metro UI, of course... but you get what I mean. PC's will be sold more, upgraded faster, which creates incentive to create all new sorts of software and games and hardware, which will bring about new technology, for which a new, better operating system is needed.... and so on.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:07 AM   #274
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This is the entire problem of the crisis in Europe.

There are companies over here that are *firing* people, even while they are making 4+ billions of profit each year. Why do they fire people? Simple. Because analysts and shareholders expected profits to be 5+ billion. That's just sick.
It's standard operating procedure for US-style corporations: short-term shareholder profits over everything else.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:03 AM   #275
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It can be done of course, and I do still have an unused Windows XP retail license from days past, but I'd rather run a heavy program such as Photoshop directly in the main operating system. Running it using a virtual machine and an ancient OS would be the very last resort.
I am not a Photoshop user, so I can not judge how "heavy" or "light" that application is. I have, however, used virtual machines to run Windows programs for a very long time. The penalty is negligible (10 to 15%, if I am not mistaken) and barely noticeable on a quad core CPU (and those are dirt cheap these days). So is memory and disks. It is definitely worth a try.

Oh, and that "ancient" OS'? If the OS is stable (and WinXP finally is), his age is completely irrelevant to the functionality provided by the Photoshop. Once WinXP is safely tucked into the virtual machine, it is very easy to cut its access to the net (use host apps instead), abandon updates and "freeze" that working setup in time.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:24 AM   #276
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Oh, and that "ancient" OS'? If the OS is stable (and WinXP finally is), his age is completely irrelevant to the functionality provided by the Photoshop. Once WinXP is safely tucked into the virtual machine, it is very easy to cut its access to the net (use host apps instead), abandon updates and "freeze" that working setup in time.
I know. Maybe this is exactly what I'm going to do, as Photoshop (and a good RAW convertor such as Lightroom) is the only thing for which there is absolutely NO workable alternative out there (for me) on Linux. Not yet, anyway. It is a distinct possibility that I'm going to install a virtual machine running Windows XP, fully update it, and stash it away somewhere for future use.

Should I move to Linux, then the VM will run Photoshop, version CS2 or later: I've already downloaded and stashed away the "free" CS2 version, as I don't know if Adobe will provide serials and downloads for CS5.1 after they take down the activation servers. CS2 is good enough for me. Photoshop 7 would actually be good enough. As of that version, Photoshop has everything I ever needed; I'm not a professional user.

If VirtualBox adds "scale display to aspect ratio" (something which Virtual PC 2007 could do already), then I'll be able to play all my old 2D Windows games too, and I'll be happy as a fish.

But if need be, I'll buy VMWare Workstation, which can scale the display to aspect ratio, to avoid using a second computer.

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Old 04-19-2013, 09:32 AM   #277
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I can sum up my reason for avoiding windows 8 like the plague. I do not want the walled garden approach that is so prevalent on mobiles and tablets to have anything to do with my desktop.

Metro apps can only be installed if they're signed and in turn approved by MS. Desktop may still be unhindered, but metro is locked off. That's something I'm not willing to accept on a desktop. I also won't accept any hardware that includes secure boot unless it provides a way to install a user defined key too.

I don't mind the two paradigms at play between desktop and metro/touch interface, I'm sure given time I'd get used to it and who knows, maybe even like it. However, it's locked down and that makes it a no from the beginning.

Had the metro store been more like Apple's OSX store where you can buy from it but you can also install signed or unsigned apps based on your gatekeepr preferences, then I wouldn't have an issue.

The signing might be hackable, but I've no interest in fighting my desktop. I'm just hoping Apple do not lose their minds and follow MS down the same path with locking down of OSX too.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:22 AM   #278
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It is a distinct possibility that I'm going to install a virtual machine running Windows XP, fully update it, and stash it away somewhere for future use.
I would do that immediately. It is highly unlikely that you will use your WinXP license for a (host) installation on a new PC, and WinXP is a prime choice for Windows virtualization, being the smallest MS OS that still works. And you can experiment with the performance using Windows as a host, it will give you a good enough "feel" for the price that you will end up paying for the virtualization.

Speaking of performance, I forgot a very important thing that I heard about Photoshop. I am uncertain when that functionality was introduced, and if it is present in the free version, but recent versions of Photoshop can recognize and very actively use CUDA cores on NVidia graphic boards (ATI, too)? When the same app is running in the virtual machine, it sees an emulated display driver, and you might end up with a horrible drop of performance.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:51 AM   #279
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Microsoft failing after 2020 with no new Windows version in sight would plunge the entire world in an indescribable computing crisis.
No, it wouldn't. Microsoft is only going to fail if substantial numbers people switch to other kinds of services--which would mean that the corporate world would have substantial reliance on other services if Microsoft vanished.

I suppose it's possible that MS could lose enough market share to stop releasing new software and stop supporting their older software, but all that would do (besides switching a lot of offices to Mac or Chrome or whatever other OS is prominent) would be to increase the number of bootleg keygens used in offices.

Right now, most offices buy licensed versions of the MS Office suite. If that's not available, they won't stop installing MS Office; they'll either buy up slightly older versions (and MS can grind its teeth realizing that no, the business world really didn't care about the differences between 03, 07, 10 and 13; they just wanted Word and Powerpoint to allow them to make reports), or they'll find some nice hacker who can invent authorization numbers for the software.

After all, if there's no licensed version available, who would they be hurting? That argument might even stand up in copyright court; lack of financial damage to the rights holder isn't a guaranteed win, but it's a strong mark in favor of fair use.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:43 PM   #280
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As long as someone wants to buy Microsoft Windows, someone will sell it. If windows went away because users no longer wanted it, they would use whatever new thing they used. Perhaps people would just migrate to Linux. But even if Microsoft were to go bankrupt (not that it is actually likely), Windows would still be a valuable product, and the creditors would sell it off or license it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:56 PM   #281
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oh please. you think the CFO is leaving because the quarter was very good?

Microsoft rises on upbeat earnings

Quote:
Microsoft jumps after earnings. Shares of the personal computer maker is up 3% in pre-market trading off a solid third-quarter earnings report.
Software Sales Bolster Microsoft, Leading to a 19% Rise in Profit

Quote:
The company’s profit figures exceeded Wall Street estimates and the company’s shares rose 2.7 percent in after-hours trading.

For its fiscal third quarter, which ended March 31, the company reported net income of $6.06 billion, or 72 cents a share, up from $5.11 billion, or 60 cents a share in the same period a year ago.

Revenue rose 18 percent to $20.49 billion from $17.41 billion.

While revenue came in slightly below analysts’ expectations of $20.56 billion, the company beat Wall Street forecasts of 68 cents a share, according to an average estimate compiled by Thomson Reuters.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #282
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Microsoft could make a lot of money as well as ensure its future by stopping all this "next stage or sea change" development. That would allow them to cut their size way down.

Just take MS OS and Office and polish it and use focus groups to find out what people like and polish it till it shines and never fails.
Sure there would be new things but they should be incremental for the most part.

I would think one big engine (just like DOS) would underlay everything and the main changes would be tweaks to the UI with the transparent ability to use old UIs.

This would save the enterprise customers all the training time and money they now have to spend learning Vistas and the like.

MS and Office 2014 would be new but not drastic changes and their cost would be lower because there would be less development that only seems to make things worse.

PC users would be happy.

If they did want a tablet OS then develop one by itself and don't try to shoehorn their big system into it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:52 PM   #283
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oh please. you think the CFO is leaving because the quarter was very good?
Please show me where I said so. I simply offered some news.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:53 PM   #284
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More bad news for Microsoft.

Quote:
Dissatisfied with sales of Windows 8 notebook and tablets, major PC vendors have reportedly joined Intel in a new push to launch convertible fondleslabs based on Google's Android OS.
Quote:
Chinese ThinkPad maker Lenovo is reportedly leading the charge and is planning to release an Android-powered version of its 11-inch Yoga convertible slab in May. But Lenovo is far from alone; Acer, Asus, HP, and Toshiba are all said to be also readying Android models that will launch in the third quarter.
Source
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:27 PM   #285
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I've never seen an Android device that could be used to do serious work with for extended amounts of time. All of those devices are just wannahaves. People who need to get stuff done, will still buy a Windows-computer, or a Mac. The only thing companies are using tablets for is to make some quick cash until the next rage comes along.

Note: I have an Android tablet, but I don't really care about the operating system, as long as I can get the applications that I want, which basically is a good browser, a PDF-reader, an e-mail client that SERIOUSLY supports IMAP, Navigation, and some games.
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