Books yours to keep or just "on loan"?

CarolB · 12-12-2009, 04:41 PM

I ask becuase someone has led my sister to believe that with a Sony and not a Kindle that the books are not yours to keep, they are merely on loan to you and that should the publisher change their minds that they can take the books off your account and you're out of luck.
I thought that as long as you backed them up, that they are yours to keep regardless. Which leads me to several more questions.
First, is having them in your Reader Library considered being backed up on your computer?
Second, can you put Sony files on Calibre and if so, is that a permanent place for them?
Do you need to put them permanently onto a memory card to keep them?
It seems as though there were other questions, but I think this does it for now. Any help would be appreciated!
Thank you!

omk3 · 12-12-2009, 04:54 PM

I think they are supposed to be yours (there is some controversy about an ebook being a product or a service, and I'm not sure what the verdict is). However, as long as there is drm on the book, you really depend on the publisher and/or the seller. If the format, or the specific brand of drm is at some point in time no longer supported, you might not be able to access your ebooks. Likewise, many ebook stores don't let you download your bought ebooks an unlimited number of times, so backing up is highly recommended.
One step of backing up is just saving in one or more places on your hard drive(s). That means you can keep the files, but you are not absolutely sure that you will be able to open them in the future.
De-drm-ing is the only safe way to keep your ebooks yours, but it is legally questionable.
All in all it's a complicated topic

CarolB · 12-12-2009, 06:20 PM

This may be a stupid question, but how do I back up Sony books or other DRM protected books in more than one place on my computer?

FizzyWater · 12-12-2009, 06:26 PM

Find the folder the Sony software saves them to - on my computer it's in My Documents\My Books\ and I have two folders in there (CONNECT Reader, from the original software name, and eBook Library, from the newer versions).

The LRX books are the DRM'd Sony formatted books, LRF are non-DRM'd. For ePub, as far as I know, you have to open it to know if it's DRM'd. But you can copy those elsewhere for a backup.

kennyc · 12-12-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolB

This may be a stupid question, but how do I back up Sony books or other DRM protected books in more than one place on my computer?

First you have to find the directory where they are stored and just copy it.

On my winxpPro PC the sony books are stored at:

C:\Documents and Settings\Kenny\My Documents\My Books

there are now (since the upgrade to 3.1) two directories there
eBook Library
and
Reader Library

Kindle (which I see you have as well) are not stored in a particular directory, just wherever you download them to.

omk3 · 12-12-2009, 06:31 PM

Epubs are downloaded through Digital Editions (or does the sony software do it too? I don't really use it) and are saved in a folder called, yes, my digital editions. Mine is in [my username]/documents/my digital editions. Extension is .epub. Just copy them wherever else you want.

kennyc · 12-12-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omk3

Epubs are downloaded through Digital Editions (or does the sony software do it too? I don't really use it) and are saved in a folder called, yes, my digital editions. Mine is in [my username]/documents/my digital editions. Extension is .epub. Just copy them wherever else you want.

The one I purchased as epub was downloaded by the Sony Library App and stored in the Sony book directory "Reader Library" as was the Google book I downloaded and the epub of a previously purchased LRX book.

It didn't appear to use Adobe DE to do any work.

omk3 · 12-12-2009, 06:45 PM

So that's why ebook library is always asking me to associate it with epub files! Ok, so both programs can download epubs, and they use different folders. Good to know.

DrMoze · 12-13-2009, 11:43 AM

BTW OP, in case you missed the news, it is Amazon/Kindle that can remove books from your device without your permission. Your SOny files are between you and your Reader and your PC.

DixieGal · 12-13-2009, 12:08 PM

Sony hides the file where your purchased downloads from them are stored. Search your computer for a book title and find the folder, then just copy it.

I keep a folder on my desktop that is imaginatively called "ebooks." Everything gets backed up to it, no matter where the book came from.

NOW THEN....
You can re-download purchases from most legitimate sellers if you lose your copies.

From Fictionwise, some books can be downloaded in multiple formats in order to back up your purchase in every possible way.

Books borrowed from libraries using the Overdrive system will expire and stop working on the date they tell you that it will happen. Makes no use trying to copy those, because you can just re-download them again if you are not finished. (Note to self: Finish Unseen Academicals quickly before it expires.)

Amazon can and has deleted books from owner's devices via the Whispernet. I think the solution was to turn that feature off. Except that is the basic reason for getting Kindle.

sirmaru · 12-13-2009, 12:18 PM

I went to the Sony Reader Store, opened my account, and found that about half of the books I purchased before the upgrade are NOT available for re-download.

Thus, keep those old eBooks and back them up to an external drive along with everything else in My Documents.

By the way, I used to read books with Adobe Reader 5 years ago. They cannot be read anymore with the new Adobe Digital Editions. Thus, as technology advances old eBooks may not be readable anymore.

DRM protection keeps evolving as does the reading software and old eBooks fade to dust.

DixieGal · 12-13-2009, 12:20 PM

That's a shame that they aren't wroking anymore. Have you tried downloading Adobe Reader and opening them with it?

kennyc · 12-13-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

....
Amazon can and has deleted books from owner's devices via the Whispernet. I think the solution was to turn that feature off. Except that is the basic reason for getting Kindle.

Not for me, it was to be able to purchase books from Amazon. I could couldn't care less about the wireless. I want to download them to my pc and back them up myself.

sirmaru · 12-13-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

That's a shame that they aren't wroking anymore. Have you tried downloading Adobe Reader and opening them with it?

I downloaded the newest version of Adobe Digital Editions (version 1.7) and it does not read the old PDF DRM books. It gives a message they were purchased ONLY for use on a different computer.

Thus, as we upgrade computers, the DRM books become useless as well.

I wonder if Sony and BN are going to do this as well?

kennyc · 12-13-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirmaru

I downloaded the newest version of Adobe Digital Editions (version 1.7) and it does not read the old PDF DRM books. It gives a message they were purchased ONLY for use on a different computer.

Thus, as we upgrade computers, the DRM books become useless as well.

I wonder if Sony and BN are going to do this as well?

Well, the way DRM works is that it is encrypted for a specific computer or set of computers. You can't just copy a DRM encrypted file to another computer and read it. It has to be re-encypted/DRM'd for that computer or device -- or has to have the DRM stripped from it. This is just one more reason DRM needs to be banned! And also why I support the ability to strip the drm off books for you own personal use (to backup, copy, etc.).

12-12-2009, 04:41 PM	#1
CarolB Connoisseur Posts: 78 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Device: Sony 600	Books yours to keep or just "on loan"? I ask becuase someone has led my sister to believe that with a Sony and not a Kindle that the books are not yours to keep, they are merely on loan to you and that should the publisher change their minds that they can take the books off your account and you're out of luck. I thought that as long as you backed them up, that they are yours to keep regardless. Which leads me to several more questions. First, is having them in your Reader Library considered being backed up on your computer? Second, can you put Sony files on Calibre and if so, is that a permanent place for them? Do you need to put them permanently onto a memory card to keep them? It seems as though there were other questions, but I think this does it for now. Any help would be appreciated! Thank you!

12-12-2009, 06:31 PM	#6
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	Epubs are downloaded through Digital Editions (or does the sony software do it too? I don't really use it) and are saved in a folder called, yes, my digital editions. Mine is in [my username]/documents/my digital editions. Extension is .epub. Just copy them wherever else you want. Last edited by omk3; 12-12-2009 at 06:33 PM.

12-13-2009, 12:18 PM	#11
sirmaru Wizard Posts: 2,426 Karma: 6561538 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: Kindle PW 2013, HDX 2013, Galaxy S5 2014	Not all can be re-downloaded I went to the Sony Reader Store, opened my account, and found that about half of the books I purchased before the upgrade are NOT available for re-download. Thus, keep those old eBooks and back them up to an external drive along with everything else in My Documents. By the way, I used to read books with Adobe Reader 5 years ago. They cannot be read anymore with the new Adobe Digital Editions. Thus, as technology advances old eBooks may not be readable anymore. DRM protection keeps evolving as does the reading software and old eBooks fade to dust. Last edited by sirmaru; 12-13-2009 at 12:22 PM.

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12-12-2009, 04:54 PM	#2
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	I think they are supposed to be yours (there is some controversy about an ebook being a product or a service, and I'm not sure what the verdict is). However, as long as there is drm on the book, you really depend on the publisher and/or the seller. If the format, or the specific brand of drm is at some point in time no longer supported, you might not be able to access your ebooks. Likewise, many ebook stores don't let you download your bought ebooks an unlimited number of times, so backing up is highly recommended. One step of backing up is just saving in one or more places on your hard drive(s). That means you can keep the files, but you are not absolutely sure that you will be able to open them in the future. De-drm-ing is the only safe way to keep your ebooks yours, but it is legally questionable. All in all it's a complicated topic

12-12-2009, 06:20 PM	#3
CarolB Connoisseur Posts: 78 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Device: Sony 600	This may be a stupid question, but how do I back up Sony books or other DRM protected books in more than one place on my computer?

12-12-2009, 06:26 PM	#4
FizzyWater You kids get off my lawn! Posts: 4,220 Karma: 73492664 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Device: Oasis 2 and Libra H2O and half a dozen older models I can't let go of	Find the folder the Sony software saves them to - on my computer it's in My Documents\My Books\ and I have two folders in there (CONNECT Reader, from the original software name, and eBook Library, from the newer versions). The LRX books are the DRM'd Sony formatted books, LRF are non-DRM'd. For ePub, as far as I know, you have to open it to know if it's DRM'd. But you can copy those elsewhere for a backup.

12-12-2009, 06:45 PM	#8
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	So that's why ebook library is always asking me to associate it with epub files! Ok, so both programs can download epubs, and they use different folders. Good to know.

12-13-2009, 11:43 AM	#9
DrMoze Booknut Posts: 858 Karma: 2852 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: West Palm Beach, Florida! Device: Sony Reader 500/505/300/350, Nook Glowlight Plus (6")	BTW OP, in case you missed the news, it is Amazon/Kindle that can remove books from your device without your permission. Your SOny files are between you and your Reader and your PC.

12-13-2009, 12:08 PM	#10
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	Sony hides the file where your purchased downloads from them are stored. Search your computer for a book title and find the folder, then just copy it. I keep a folder on my desktop that is imaginatively called "ebooks." Everything gets backed up to it, no matter where the book came from. NOW THEN.... You can re-download purchases from most legitimate sellers if you lose your copies. From Fictionwise, some books can be downloaded in multiple formats in order to back up your purchase in every possible way. Books borrowed from libraries using the Overdrive system will expire and stop working on the date they tell you that it will happen. Makes no use trying to copy those, because you can just re-download them again if you are not finished. (Note to self: Finish Unseen Academicals* quickly before it expires.)* Amazon can and has deleted books from owner's devices via the Whispernet. I think the solution was to turn that feature off. Except that is the basic reason for getting Kindle.

12-13-2009, 12:20 PM	#12
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	That's a shame that they aren't wroking anymore. Have you tried downloading Adobe Reader and opening them with it?

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