The New ePub DRM

[6charlong]

I'm hoping RobertB can answer this because if he can't, no one can!

Barnes and Noble is about to start publishing ePub books using a new (old?) DRM system previously used with eReader format. It uses your name and credit card number to unlock the DRM on a secure eBook on the assumption that no one will want to share those two pieces of information in order to give away a book. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

Question: Will Astak update their line so they can read both Adept and B&N DRMed ePub books?

I like having the choice of formats and sources that the Pocket Pro gives me but I especially like the eReader DRM scheme because it's the least intrusive. Hoping for an answer, even if it's in the form of "too soon to know."

[ThomasMcKean]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

I'm hoping RobertB can answer this because if he can't, no one can!

Barnes and Noble is about to start publishing ePub books using a new (old?) DRM system previously used with eReader format. It uses your name and credit card number to unlock the DRM on a secure eBook on the assumption that no one will want to share those two pieces of information in order to give away a book. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

Question: Will Astak update their line so they can read both Adept and B&N DRMed ePub books?

I like having the choice of formats and sources that the Pocket Pro gives me but I especially like the eReader DRM scheme because it's the least intrusive. Hoping for an answer, even if it's in the form of "too soon to know."

I bought the EZ Reader specifically for this reason. There are still many places out on the net where it is stated that the Astak reads eReader books. This proved to be false, but Robertb has explained why this is, and to my satisfaction.

I have been stripping the DRM and reading with Allreader+, but I am hoping still that one day the Astak will be eReader compatible.

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

I'm hoping RobertB can answer this because if he can't, no one can!

Barnes and Noble is about to start publishing ePub books using a new (old?) DRM system previously used with eReader format. It uses your name and credit card number to unlock the DRM on a secure eBook on the assumption that no one will want to share those two pieces of information in order to give away a book. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

Question: Will Astak update their line so they can read both Adept and B&N DRMed ePub books?

I like having the choice of formats and sources that the Pocket Pro gives me but I especially like the eReader DRM scheme because it's the least intrusive. Hoping for an answer, even if it's in the form of "too soon to know."

Dear 6 charlong:

If I had a nickle for each time I have answered this I could buy my own island. (HA)

We have been trying to get Fictionwise to allow us to carry their eReader DRM format on our device for a year. It was simple until Barnes& Noble purchased Fictionwise. Since then it has been all legaleeze. Getting a contract took months and getting clarification takes more months.

There is talk in the contract of "exclusivity" and that means we cannot do it. IF they remove this demand we are good to go. But... nothing is simple with B&N.

There is word that the B&N library WILL be available to Adobe Digital Editions users in the summer of 2010. But, getting clarification of this seems to take months.

In short, negotiations are continuing!! The problem is not that we do not want it or have a problem in paying. The problem is that they cannot seem to understand their own contract in order to amend it. We LOVE Fictionwise but dealing now is very complex.

[ThomasMcKean]

Originally Posted by Robertb

But... nothing is simple with B&N.

One good thing I can say about them, though. After the book (to the left under my name) appeared on Oprah, it reached #3 on the B&N best seller list. It was the third best seller they had for a few days.

As far as Amazon, my understanding is that it reached #73, which, for Amazon, is still not too shabby!

[6charlong]

Thanks Robert, that really helps.

I understood that B&N is already selling books in ePub format, but the books they're selling don't use Adept DRM. They are exclusively using their own proprietary DRM scheme. Only B&N's own nook book reader can render both Adept and B&N DRM, so only nook owners can buy from B&N, Sony, Kobo, BoB, etc. I also heard that Adobe's own DE software is unable to render the new DRM yet, so I'm not surprised by your answer. What is puzzling is that the B&N eBookstore doesn't clarify this issue for their customers.

I guess "fair warning" to potential B&N customers is in order.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by Robertb

There is word that the B&N library WILL be available to Adobe Digital Editions users in the summer of 2010. But, getting clarification of this seems to take months.

B&N (not necessarily FictionWise, but the B&N ebookstore) is migrating exclusively to ePub using "password" DRM (similar DRM to eReader, but for ePub). Adobe controls this DRM, and what they say (Customer FAQ: Adobe and Barnes & Noble) is:

Q: What is the new social content protection technology that Adobe will be delivering in its solutions, and how does it relate to today's eReader DRM?
A: Adobe is adding support to its digital publishing solutions for a new, password-based content protection option for EPUB. This new feature will be part of the Adobe solution and encompasses technology licensed from Barnes & Noble. From an end-user perspective, this password protection option will function similar to the way that today's eReader DRM works with the eReader PDB format. For example, an EPUB file protected with this option will require the user to enter an ID and password the first time they wish to access the content. Distributors using this system may choose to make the password something that a user is reluctant to share with others, such as the billing name and number of the credit card used to purchase the content (as is done in today's eReader model), but this will not be a requirement of the password-protection option itself.

Q: When will Content Server-compatible devices support this new password protection option?
A: Adobe will deliver later in 2009 an enhanced Reader Mobile SDK that, among other new features, will support the new password-based EPUB protection option. Devices that integrate this enhanced RMSDK will be compatible with EPUB content sold by the Barnes & Noble eBookstore, although the devices may require manual transfer of content until the next major version of Adobe Digital Editions is released. This compatibility may also include firmware upgrades made available for existing devices, as determined by our licensees.

So, when 6charlong asks "Will Astak update their line so they can read both Adept and B&N DRMed ePub books?" this is equivalent to "Will Astak update their line to support password-based ePub DRM from Adobe". The point is that Adobe has committed to providing the capability, but it is up to its licensees (like Astak, Jinke and Netronix) to implement the new features of the Reader Mobile SDK on theie devices.

I don't think there is much concern about password-DRM for new device types, this seems almost automatic, so what 6charlong is asking about is existing devices.

Note that B&N is already providing password-protected ePubs for the Nook and for its Reader apps (Windows PCs, Macs, iPhone). These ePubs are already guaranteed to work on any mobile ADE device that support password-DRM. We just need the capability implemented. However, when the FAQ said "later in 2009" I assume Adobe now means early on 2010, i.e. like most software it is probably running late.

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

Thanks Robert, that really helps.

I understood that B&N is already selling books in ePub format, but the books they're selling don't use Adept DRM. They are exclusively using their own proprietary DRM scheme. Only B&N's own nook book reader can render both Adept and B&N DRM, so only nook owners can buy from B&N, Sony, Kobo, BoB, etc. I also heard that Adobe's own DE software is unable to render the new DRM yet, so I'm not surprised by your answer. What is puzzling is that the B&N eBookstore doesn't clarify this issue for their customers.

I guess "fair warning" to potential B&N customers is in order.

Dear 6charlong:

Books On Board is our partner and most of their library is in Adobe Digital Editions, which the Astak devices all take in DRM. Sony is converting from their own format to where their entire library will soon be Adobe Digital Editions DRM. Plus there is Powell's Books which is almost all Adobe Digital Editions.

The NOOk is painting itself into a corner with only their own eReader format. The rest of the world is going to Adobe Digital Editions. That is why B&N is going to accept ADE (Adobe Digital Editions) next Summer!

Plus... let us only say that reviews on the "NOOK" have been mixed at best.

And... Astak may have some news too at CES. No hints but stay tuned!

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

B&N (not necessarily FictionWise, but the B&N ebookstore) is migrating exclusively to ePub using "password" DRM (similar DRM to eReader, but for ePub). Adobe controls this DRM, and what they say (Customer FAQ: Adobe and Barnes & Noble) is:

So, when 6charlong asks "Will Astak update their line so they can read both Adept and B&N DRMed ePub books?" this is equivalent to "Will Astak update their line to support password-based ePub DRM from Adobe". The point is that Adobe has committed to providing the capability, but it is up to its licensees (like Astak, Jinke and Netronix) to implement the new features of the Reader Mobile SDK on theie devices.

I don't think there is much concern about password-DRM for new device types, this seems almost automatic, so what 6charlong is asking about is existing devices.

Note that B&N is already providing password-protected ePubs for the Nook and for its Reader apps (Windows PCs, Macs, iPhone). These ePubs are already guaranteed to work on any mobile ADE device that support password-DRM. We just need the capability implemented. However, when the FAQ said "later in 2009" I assume Adobe now means early on 2010, i.e. like most software it is probably running late.

Dear Wallcraft:

You cannot port (implement the new features) until you get an SDK for Linux devices. This has been 1 year in the making so far and no sign it is ready to ship. You also need to sign a contract and that contract is about 45 pages of legal language that even Fictionwise cannot interpret or translate. Plus, if it is "exclusive" we would have to dump ADE (which we will not do). It is not as simple as you say, my friend, with all respect to you!

[6charlong]

Thanks to you both.

I'll wait to buy anything from Barnes and Noble until I see (on this forum?) that their books will be readable on my Pocket Pro.

Thanks again for your assistance.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by Robertb

You cannot port (implement the new features) until you get an SDK for Linux devices. This has been 1 year in the making so far and no sign it is ready to ship.

There are two products, eReader with eReader DRM and ePub with eReader-like DRM. The first is sold by FictionWise, eReader.com, etcetera. The 2nd is currently only sold by B&N ebook store, which is switching all of their ebooks from eReader to ePub.

I know 6charlong said this was a B&N issue, but Adobe is now responsible for ePub with eReader-like (passworded) DRM. In order to use this all Astak needs is your existing license with Adobe and the latest (probably not out yet) version of the mobile ADE SDK.

Since B&N is going with Adobe ePub, the long term viability of the eReader format seems questionable to me. On the other hand there are now two dedicated readers that support eReader (the Ectaco Jetbook Lite and the Foxit eSlick). Both only support eReader DRM, which goes to your "exclusive" point. These are presumably using the eReader Linux SDK from FictionWise. Again, to support the passworded ePubs sold by B&N you need a license from Adobe, not from B&N, and the Adobe SDK. The same mobile ADE SDK will support both the existing AdobeID DRM and the passworded DRM.

[Jim Lester]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Dear Wallcraft:

Dear Wallcraft:

You cannot port (implement the new features) until you get an SDK for Linux devices. This has been 1 year in the making so far and no sign it is ready to ship. You also need to sign a contract and that contract is about 45 pages of legal language that even Fictionwise cannot interpret or translate. Plus, if it is "exclusive" we would have to dump ADE (which we will not do). It is not as simple as you say, my friend, with all respect to you!
You cannot port (implement the new features) until you get an SDK for Linux devices. This has been 1 year in the making so far and no sign it is ready to ship. You also need to sign a contract and that contract is about 45 pages of legal language that even Fictionwise cannot interpret or translate. Plus, if it is "exclusive" we would have to dump ADE (which we will not do). It is not as simple as you say, my friend, with all respect to you!

I hope wallcraft and RobertB are talking about two entirely separate things.

RobertB appears to be talking about an SDK from Fictionwise for rendering the eReader format with (and most likely without) DRM.

Wallcraft was talking about the Adobe Reader Mobile SDK 9.1 which is shipping Real Soon Now ( I do mean that - I'll edit to put in the exact 2009 date after marketing announces ), and is already preported to Linux.

Edit: RMSDK 9.1 shipped to customers Dec. 15 2009

For reading the ePubs from B&N ( that B&N is current serving and shifting to using instead of the eReader format ) you'll need the Adobe Reader Mobile SDK version 9.1 or above (and not any SDK from Fictionwise).

Note however this is not a complete panacea, since Adobe needs to get our act together as well. For devices with no keyboard support, such as the Astak devices (Robert, please correct me if I'm wrong about the keyboard support), Adobe Digital Editions needs to be updated to not only support the new password DRM but also to send the key information to the device while tethered to the desktop computer, where you have entered in the password. Until this is done it's fairly academic if the device supports the Password flavor of DRM, since there is no way to enter the password on those device

While we will do this with the release of Digital Editions that includes the updated RMSDK, I strongly doubt it will make it out by summer of 2010.

--
Jim Lester
Adobe Systems

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by Jim Lester

Note however this is not a complete panacea, since Adobe needs to get our act together as well. For devices with no keyboard support, such as the Astak devices (Robert, please correct me if I'm wrong about the keyboard support), Adobe Digital Editions needs to be updated to not only support the new password DRM but also to send the key information to the device while tethered to the desktop computer, where you have entered in the password. Until this is done it's fairly academic if the device supports the Password flavor of DRM, since there is no way to enter the password on those device.

The Foxit eSlick has a virtual keyboard to enter the password for eReader DRM, and it has been reported to be a hassle (but not impossible, since you only need to use it once in a blue moon). Thankfully, there is already a virtual keyboard on the Hanlins for search.

My point about the 2009 release of Adobe Reader Mobile SDK 9.1 was that it isn't available yet, so it isn't surprising that Robertb did not know about it. Licensees are no doubt going to want to judge the effort involved before committing to back porting the new version to existing devices.

[JSWolf]

The problem with B&N is they are switching to ePub without telling anyone. Some of the new eBooks are ePub and you don't know this by looking at the eBook entry. So if you are looking for eReader, you may end up with ePub. And you'll end up with ePub that would only work on a nook (as far as eink readers go). So the problem is B&N is being sneaky here. Sleezy is probably a better word. Not telling anyone about the switch to ePub and then also not telling anyone about the DRM mess they are causing big time.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Books On Board is our partner and most of their library is in Adobe Digital Editions, which the Astak devices all take in DRM. Sony is converting from their own format to where their entire library will soon be Adobe Digital Editions DRM. Plus there is Powell's Books which is almost all Adobe Digital Editions.

Adobe Digital Editions isn't a format (even if some retailers say it it). ADE is software that reads ePub's and PDF's with Adobe's Adobe ID style Adept encryption. Adobe is adding a second type of protection which B&N is using (they're moving away from eReader format) which will be available to SDK licensees eventually (at least that's my understanding).

The NOOk is painting itself into a corner with only their own eReader format. The rest of the world is going to Adobe Digital Editions. That is why B&N is going to accept ADE (Adobe Digital Editions) next Summer!

The Nook already reads what you're calling ADE books. B&N has just gone a step further and are using the newer second type of protection from Adobe on the ePub's they sell in their own store.

[Jim Lester]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

The Foxit eSlick has a virtual keyboard to enter the password for eReader DRM, and it has been reported to be a hassle (but not impossible, since you only need to use it once in a blue moon). Thankfully, there is already a virtual keyboard on the Hanlins for search.

Good to know, one of my regrets of being heads down coding is that I don't have as much time to play with the gadgets. I've stuck (pleasantly, but still stuck) with my 505, and only had passing time to play with a Nook.

Originally Posted by wallcraft

My point about the 2009 release of Adobe Reader Mobile SDK 9.1 was that it isn't available yet, so it isn't surprising that Robertb did not know about it.

Actually that would be surprising (we do pre-releases for RMSDK customers), but again I think the main problem was that you are Robert were talking about two different SDKs (one from Adobe for ePub, one from Fictionwise for eReader). As Jon noted above, figuring out what which format you are getting from B&N right now is difficult until after the fact. So a little confusion about which B&N format someone is talking about is unfortunately very understandable right now.

Licensees are no doubt going to want to judge the effort involved before committing to back porting the new version to existing devices

Absolutely.