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Old 09-11-2009, 03:58 AM   #16
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Ideally however, this becomes a new from of media-story - not a 'digi-novel' - an internet based narrative that combines all types of media and interactive components.
I agree, this could have potential, maybe. I suspect that the games industry is much farther ahead on this road than book publishers though. There are already games that have a strong narrative aspect. I've tried a few and liked some. Nobody pretended they were novels, but the quality of the narrative had an important part in whether or not I enjoyed them. This is not especially new either. How old is Myst? Must be rather more than 10 years I would think...

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Old 09-11-2009, 04:11 AM   #17
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I'm back, I couldn't resist checking: Myst was released on September 24, 1993, my 30th birthday Which makes it very old indeed
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:23 AM   #18
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I agree, this could have potential, maybe. I suspect that the games industry is much farther ahead on this road than book publishers tough. There are already games that have a strong narrative aspect. I've tried a few and liked some. Nobody pretended they were novels, but the quality of the narrative had an important part in whether or not I enjoyed them. This is not especially new either. How old is Myst? Must be rather more than 10 years I would think...
I'd go one further. I think games/interactive experiences have the ability to eradicate leisure reading within fifty years. We'll have 3D without glasses within 10 years (according to recent reports), how much longer until we have full immersion experiences? Why read a book when you can live the story? Book reading is going to look very quaint in the future
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:34 AM   #19
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I'd go one further. I think games/interactive experiences have the ability to eradicate leisure reading within fifty years. We'll have 3D without glasses within 10 years (according to recent reports), how much longer until we have full immersion experiences? Why read a book when you can live the story? Book reading is going to look very quaint in the future
That is silly. Motion pictures, televisions and video games did not eradicate reading. They do compete for leasure time, yes, and for some people maybe they can replace reading, but look at it this way: more than a century after the first motion picture was produced, here we are on the internet, discussing books
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:41 AM   #20
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I'd go one further. I think games/interactive experiences have the ability to eradicate leisure reading within fifty years. We'll have 3D without glasses within 10 years (according to recent reports), how much longer until we have full immersion experiences? Why read a book when you can live the story? Book reading is going to look very quaint in the future
I'd have to disagree; the written wor(l)d allows you to build up your own internal world using the author's descriptions as a guide. That is why (I think) people are perennially disappointed with movie adaptations; they take away from your own imagination and impose the view of a director/casting crew (can you now think of Gandalf without picturing Ian McKellen? Exactly).

There will always be books and reading, I think, and it will always be a small subgroup of the total population who love to read. I've read some ancient Greek text where the author laments about how today's youth does not read and how the world is basically going to hell in a handbasket.

But at the same time I am not a snob about formats; a good story/shared experience is a good story/shared experience, whether it is in music, painting, sculpture, a play, a movie, the written word, VR, brainstem interface or whatever.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:47 AM   #21
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I'd have to disagree; the written wor(l)d allows you to build up your own internal world using the author's descriptions as a guide. That is why (I think) people are perennially disappointed with movie adaptations; they take away from your own imagination and impose the view of a director/casting crew (can you now think of Gandalf without picturing Ian McKellen? Exactly).

There will always be books and reading, I think, and it will always be a small subgroup of the total population who love to read. I've read some ancient Greek text where the author laments about how today's youth does not read and how the world is basically going to hell in a handbasket.

But at the same time I am not a snob about formats; a good story/shared experience is a good story/shared experience, whether it is in music, painting, sculpture, a play, a movie, the written word, VR, brainstem interface or whatever.
Yes, yes, and yes!!! I agree with all of the above
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:52 AM   #22
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Hey, did you guys know there is a version of Myst for the iPhone? I'll have to check this out when I get back home
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:53 AM   #23
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I'd have to disagree; the written wor(l)d allows you to build up your own internal world using the author's descriptions as a guide. That is why (I think) people are perennially disappointed with movie adaptations; they take away from your own imagination and impose the view of a director/casting crew (can you now think of Gandalf without picturing Ian McKellen? Exactly).

There will always be books and reading, I think, and it will always be a small subgroup of the total population who love to read. I've read some ancient Greek text where the author laments about how today's youth does not read and how the world is basically going to hell in a handbasket.

But at the same time I am not a snob about formats; a good story/shared experience is a good story/shared experience, whether it is in music, painting, sculpture, a play, a movie, the written word, VR, brainstem interface or whatever.
I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. I've got this nagging feeling that books and leisure reading will become all but extinct in the future, leaving behind a small holdout of readers.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:04 AM   #24
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I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. I've got this nagging feeling that books and leisure reading will become all but extinct in the future, leaving behind a small holdout of readers.
You're not alone: people have been thinking this for centuries
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:09 AM   #25
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You're not alone: people have been thinking this for centuries
They didn't have 3D Glasses and the possibility of implanted memory in the last couple of centuries though
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:16 AM   #26
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They didn't have 3D Glasses and the possibility of implanted memory in the last couple of centuries though
So what? The enjoyment of reading a book has nothing to do with that. Reading was never something very many people enjoy anyway. Competing technologies mean more enjoyment possibilities for both kinds of people, the kinds that enjoy and don't enjoy reading. But it has nothing to do with the disappearance of books. What would 3D glasses add to Steinbeck?
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:28 AM   #27
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So what? The enjoyment of reading a book has nothing to do with that. Reading was never something very many people enjoy anyway. Competing technologies mean more enjoyment possibilities for both kinds of people, the kinds that enjoy and don't enjoy reading. But it has nothing to do with the disappearance of books. What would 3D glasses add to Steinbeck?
3D Glasses would add nothing to Steinbeck, but then again in a world where the integrated experience was at the fore, who would know of Steinbeck to begin with? Who would travel with Charly, or eat any of those wrathful grapes when they can have instant-on, full experience entertainment? Me, you?
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:00 AM   #28
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3D Glasses would add nothing to Steinbeck, but then again in a world where the integrated experience was at the fore, who would know of Steinbeck to begin with? Who would travel with Charly, or eat any of those wrathful grapes when they can have instant-on, full experience entertainment? Me, you?
Just about the same people who do now. Why do we read books? We don't have to, there are millions of other things to do that can be just as enjoyable. Many people rarely or never read. Yet we do. Why? Why not? And why would we suddenly stop doing it, just because there is a new gadget available? Why would we stop now if we didn't stop for other kinds of entertainment?

I like to eat Japanese and Vietnamese food and many other types of food. That doesn't stop me from enjoying French food. I might (though I'm not sure about that) enjoy "instant-on, full experience entertainment", but that won't stop me from enjoying books too. I just don't see how one would stop me from the other.

Of course if this kind of entertainment were available, many people would prefer it to books. Just like many people prefer television or video games or Facebook to reading books. Just like people may have preferred other types of distractions a few centuries ago. I don't see anything new in that.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:02 AM   #29
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Nope, I'm with you there. Publishers seem to feel the need to make a book "something more". I guess time will tell if these efforts will be popular or not.
I thought that was the WWW.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:32 AM   #30
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The Greek reference was Socrates

“…this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality.”

Socrates, Phaedrus.

It is quite amazing actually.

Here's another one (sort of veering off topic, sorry)

“Today in our cities, most learning occurs outside the classroom. The sheer quantity of information conveyed by [the new media] far exceeds the monopoly of the book as a teaching aid and cracked the very walls of the classroom so suddenly, we’re confused, baffled...[M]any teachers naturally view the offerings of the new media as entertainment, rather than education. But this carries no conviction to the student.”

Marshall McLuhan’s 1957 essay “Classroom without Walls”

Michael F Stewart
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