What is wrong with the Iliad's power-saving?

[CommanderROR]

This is an issue we have all talked about before, and it remains an issue.
So far, we have all been hoping for software updates to improve battery life, and they have improved. however, something is still gravely wrong. The Hanlin V8 and the sony Librié both manage to deliver loads of "standby" time. If you put them aside and don't use them the battery apparently doesn't drain considerably faster than it would if you removed it from the device.

the question is whether this will ever be possible with the Iliad. Hardware shouldn't be the problem here, the Iliad doesn't have anything (essential to reading) that the other devices don't. The Hanlin even has a conventional Touchscreen, so it should be even harder to use power-saving there than it is with the Iliad's Wacom (pen out, power on, pen in, power off).

I've seen a very worrying comment from the iRex developers on their forums, which is also the reason why I'm putting htis post up.

View the thread here:
http://forum.irexnet.com/viewtopic.php?p=1901#1901

The line that frightens me is the following:

You assumption is incorrect: although the screen doesn't need power, the processor, usb, mmc/cf slot, etc. requires power when the device is turned on.

Maybe we can finally get some iformation about the Power-Saving limitations of the Iliad in comparison to the Hanlin V8 and the old Librié, so join the discussion there and here and maybe we can get some idea what the Iliad's battery life will be and what it won't.

Apart from the fact that the power-hunger of the Iliad makes us very power-outles ependent, the fact that we have to reload so often reduces the life-span of our batteries quite considerably, and the battery isn't user replaceable...take that into consideration as well.
I really like my Iliad, no question, but the fact that it's power-saving quite possibly isn't going to be the Full on/off mode the other devices support really makes me regret not getting a Hanlin V8. The smaller screen and the ugly exterior don't really make the device more attractive, but it's more paperlike (booklike) properties are definited advantages...

[R2D2]

As I have said before: If the Zaurus can go to and resume from suspend in no time I don't know why the iLiad shouldn't be able to do the same.

[ali]

From the discussions here and at the iRex forum I got the impression they are not going for that approach.

You could do that: Clicking a button re-awakes from suspend, makes the screen update and possibly some pre-caching, then goes back into suspend.

You loose the possibility to run background tasks. (Examples: SMB server to copy files via network; background downloading of content; ...) I could live without that, but apparently others don't.

It looks like they are simply using a powersaving scheme similar to laptops - CPU gets throttled when nothing is to be done. We will know for sure when the SDK is out.


Note: It might be that the buttons aren't accessible in suspend mode (that is, the necessary hardware capability to wake up on button click is missing). Then, it would only be possible with the Iliad v2.

[tribble]

Originally Posted by ali

Note: It might be that the buttons aren't accessible in suspend mode (that is, the necessary hardware capability to wake up on button click is missing). Then, it would only be possible with the Iliad v2.

That would be really stupid.

[CommanderROR]

@tribble

It would be stupid...but somehow i'm afraid that#s exactly what's going on here...or am I turning from optimist to pessimist...?

[tribble]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

@tribble

It would be stupid...but somehow i'm afraid that#s exactly what's going on here...or am I turning from optimist to pessimist...?

OK, lets move to the meditation thread.

[TadW]

Very worrysome indeed.

The beauty of Linux is that you should be able to put to sleep almost any hardware component to save valuable battery life...

It's time iRex folks comply to GPL and release the sources to the damn thing. Then perhaps some capable Linux hackers will fix what's still broken.

[design256]

Originally Posted by TadW

Very worrysome indeed.

The beauty of Linux is that you should be able to put to sleep almost any hardware component to save valuable battery life...

It's time iRex folks comply to GPL and release the sources to the damn thing. Then perhaps some capable Linux hackers will fix what's still broken.

I agree 100%. They have a very narrow window of opportunity before Sony steals their thunder with the Reader, and they have many open source developers waiting to knock out software for it. All we need is access to the platform and a working toolchain (actually all we need is access to the platform and their libraries...) We don't care if it's unfinished or rough around the edges - but if we don't get it soon then they will lose their advantage and this will be disastrous for them.

Also, they need to open up the machine completely - root access, hardware specs, full source code. If they do this, then the open source community will work magic with this wonderful piece of hardware. If they smother us with unnecessary restrictions then we'll get bored and do something else.


Your call, Irex.....

[CommanderROR]

I really like the size of the Iliad, it's weight is okay and the features are cool (even if I don't use them most of the time, it's good to have them there...using the device as a notepad is a cool way of making it paper-like...).

So if they can get the battery life going and maybe make it possible to zoom in PDF files (or rather make it possible for reflowable PDF files to actually reflow...) then I'd be a happy camper...

I don't think they will give the open-source community enough info to reshape the basic OS itself and I don't know whether they should. I'll wait till I see 2.7, if I see something hopeful happening then, I'll give them more time. If it still runs out of power just as quickly, whther you actually use it or not, then I'll go really mad and scream at them. It won't help, but I'll do it anyway...

I'd really hate to swap the nicely done Iliad for a cheap-looking Chinese device, but if the Chinese device gives me what I need (battery life, some input options and a cover/protection right out of the box) then...maybe...we'll see...^^

[ali]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

I don't think they will give the open-source community enough info to reshape the basic OS itself and I don't know whether they should.

I guess if you saw the difference between "Sharp ROM 2.something" and current Opie releases (for the Zaurus), your answer would be different.

[svieira]

The issue with the Iliad not able to do proper power saving was what made me to buy a Librie, and I am very happy with it.

The other reason was the Iliad being closed for developers. That was a bad management decision. Once you are a market leader you can do what you want, even introducing your own formats.

I am sad of not having that piece of hardware that is the Iliad, but for what I see in the forums,I think I have done the right decision. With the Librie (once one understands it) I can read anywhere and I do not have to worry about batteries.

What I still do not know is why they decided to go for the 2.4 kernel. The 2.6 kernel has a much better power management. And new development on the 2.4 tree is almost dead.

Anyway, till they do not open the device to developers those questions will only be guesses. I wonder even if what the irex guys say is the truth.

[tribble]

Originally Posted by ali

Note: It might be that the buttons aren't accessible in suspend mode (that is, the necessary hardware capability to wake up on button click is missing). Then, it would only be possible with the Iliad v2.

I just thought, at least ONE button must be accessible in suspend, doesnt it? The Power on/off switch. Or am i wrong?

[arivero]

Originally Posted by svieira

Anyway, till they do not open the device to developers those questions will only be guesses. I wonder even if what the irex guys say is the truth.

I take your word and I hope that now that the Librie is completely open for development, (thanks to reverse engineering by A. Jennings) you will look for ways to contribute to it!! In turn, this will put pressure on other sellers (iLiad, Amazon) to help developers instead of being afraid of them.

[arivero]

Originally Posted by design256

I... completely - root access, hardware specs, full source code.

The Apple II came with the complete schematics of the electronic circuit board.

[arivero]

Originally Posted by svieira

What I still do not know is why they decided to go for the 2.4 kernel. The 2.6 kernel has a much better power management. And new development on the 2.4 tree is almost dead.

the references for the usb chip they are using speak only about the 2.4 kernel, so a jump to 2.6 depends on someone actually doing a module to drive this USB chip, which is a very peculiar beast from Phillips.

In any case, also the Librie kernel was 2.4.