Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-23-2012, 04:02 AM   #76
Kumabjorn
Basculocolpic
Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kumabjorn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kumabjorn's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,356
Karma: 20181319
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sweden
Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1
She got a call during the night from Amazon UK offering her a new Kindle.
Kumabjorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 04:36 AM   #77
BoldlyDubious
what if...?
BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
BoldlyDubious's Avatar
 
Posts: 209
Karma: 750870
Join Date: Feb 2011
Device: paper & electrophoretic
I just updated the thread title, and put the news at the bottom of the first post.

I'm relieved to know that Amazon did not perform remote deletion of books. Of course this is a very limited relief: Amazon retains the power to do such things (and what else? Read and/or delete content from Kindles even if it was not sourced from Amazon? We don't know...) whenever they want. Moreover, it seems to be confirmed that Amazon can decide at any time to terminate your account without giving you neither an explanation nor the possibility to prove that they're wrong. And I can't see how you can get back the books you "purchased" from Amazon if you don't have an Amazon account anymore...
I think it's unhealthy that such an unlimited power over their customers is allowed to companies; especially those that deal with important things (for society) like culture.
BoldlyDubious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 05:18 AM   #78
blogbook
Groupie
blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
blogbook's Avatar
 
Posts: 167
Karma: 948780
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: Sony 505, KF HD 8.9"
I think she never really said that Amazon remotely wiped her Kindle. It was more like "I cannot redownload my books because Amazon closed my account and I cannot access any local copies because my Kindle is broken". And after some rounds of chinese whisper through the "blogosphere" the part about the broken Kindle got lost.

If I correctly remember the last reported case of a closed account, Amazon refused to do any more business with the person concerned (=selling him stuff) but he kept access to his account and his already bought and paid digital goods: apps, mp3 files and ebooks.

The current case seems to be a string of botched CS actions to me: No real communication with the customer and total account lock.
blogbook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 05:27 AM   #79
blogbook
Groupie
blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.blogbook ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
blogbook's Avatar
 
Posts: 167
Karma: 948780
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: Sony 505, KF HD 8.9"
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldlyDubious View Post
...
I think it's unhealthy that such an unlimited power over their customers is allowed to companies; especially those that deal with important things (for society) like culture.
Yes, I don't like it either, but if devaluating culture were a crime, most TV programs and talk shows would be outlawed
blogbook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:35 AM   #80
ProfCrash
Tea Enthusiast
ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ProfCrash ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
ProfCrash's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,554
Karma: 75384937
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldlyDubious View Post
I just updated the thread title, and put the news at the bottom of the first post.

I'm relieved to know that Amazon did not perform remote deletion of books. Of course this is a very limited relief: Amazon retains the power to do such things (and what else? Read and/or delete content from Kindles even if it was not sourced from Amazon? We don't know...) whenever they want. Moreover, it seems to be confirmed that Amazon can decide at any time to terminate your account without giving you neither an explanation nor the possibility to prove that they're wrong. And I can't see how you can get back the books you "purchased" from Amazon if you don't have an Amazon account anymore...
I think it's unhealthy that such an unlimited power over their customers is allowed to companies; especially those that deal with important things (for society) like culture.
Sony, Kobo, and Nook can do the same thing. Any ereader with WiFi is at risk. This seems to pop up once every six months with Amazon. It is normally connected to an account that has been stolen or is connected to an account that has been used fraudulently. 90% of the time the "victim" suddenly remembers that they did all these things, normally abusing the return policy, and works it out with Amazon. I have yet to read of one of these cases were the "victim" was in the clear.

Amazon needs to handle these better but in the long run the likelihood of anyones account being closed maliciously or accidentily is pretty small. If it was happening a ton we would read about it with a great deal more frequency.

And because there is that small probability, I strip the drm and back up my books.
ProfCrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:57 AM   #81
hapipiko
hapipiko
hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.hapipiko can program the VCR without an owner's manual.
 
hapipiko's Avatar
 
Posts: 35
Karma: 170000
Join Date: May 2008
Device: first iLiad V2 (now retired) Kobo touch, samsung galaxy tab
well, here is a link from someone who called Amazon customcare and this is what was said: https://p.6core.net/p/hx5voap6k84ndcrn
hapipiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 08:00 AM   #82
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,467
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by taustin View Post
The reasons it was such a big deal were that 1) they did so without any notice or explanation until the internet exploded on them, and 2) among the marketing claims when they first introducted the Kindle was that they couldn't do so, and their terms of service made no allowance for doing so under any circumstances.
I don't recall anything (yay or nay) RE Amazon's ability to remotely remove content from a device in their original marketing claims. I'm not saying it might not have been there, only that I don't recall it and would appreciate seeing some corroborating evidence concerning those alleged initial marketing claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfCrash View Post
90% of the time the "victim" suddenly remembers that they did all these things, normally abusing the return policy, and works it out with Amazon. I have yet to read of one of these cases were the "victim" was in the clear.
That's been my experience as well. Not to say it couldn't happen to a completely innocent party... only that the attention (not to mention the coverage) would be absolutely tremendous were innocent babes being separated from their purchased content with any sort of regularity. But I've yet to read any of these fairly rare incidents where the "aggrieved" customer didn't eventually reveal (little by little) the behavior that warranted being sanctioned in the first place. And then the conversation always devolves into variations on the "yeah, but it's the principle of the thing" theme. The very direction that that this thread now seems to be headed, in fact.

Access to your "original" licensed, DRMed e-content is always an extremely fragile thing; regardless of who you "bought" it from. "Honest" users have no more to fear in that regard from Amazon than they would from any other DRMed e-content retailer.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 10-23-2012 at 08:32 AM.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 08:29 AM   #83
DrNefario
Wizard
DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DrNefario ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DrNefario's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,095
Karma: 11315768
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Device: Kindle, Kobo Touch, Nook SimpleTouch
A lot of people have talked about liberating and backing up their content. Another approach is to recognise what you are actually paying for - a kind of extended rental - and adjust what you are willing to pay for it accordingly.

In my own case, I have never bothered deDRMing any of my Kindle books, even though I vaguely thought I might. They simply never go to my PC. I enjoy the convenience of being able to buy things and have them turn up automatically on my Kindle. I'm not in a great rush to give myself a lot of extra work obtaining and organising the backups.

I might live to regret it, but I have no complaints so far. If I didn't build up so many unread books, I'd probably never care. I'm not a big rereader.
DrNefario is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 08:55 AM   #84
BoldlyDubious
what if...?
BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
BoldlyDubious's Avatar
 
Posts: 209
Karma: 750870
Join Date: Feb 2011
Device: paper & electrophoretic
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapipiko View Post
well, here is a link from someone who called Amazon customcare and this is what was said: https://p.6core.net/p/hx5voap6k84ndcrn
Thank you, very interesting.
Despite the reassuring tone, two of the things that "Maria Jose from Amazon.com" writes are (for what I know) false:

1) we are not allowed to close accounts unless the customer requests it.
(...actually Amazon seems to do just this if they decide that you did something wrong, according to their own criteria that you are not allowed to know)

2) And also I can assure you that we can not wipe out the content on your Kindle, that's up to you.
(...they already demonstrated, thanks to the infamous "1984" episode, that they can)
BoldlyDubious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:09 AM   #85
Rich_D
Fanatic
Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rich_D ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rich_D's Avatar
 
Posts: 581
Karma: 1314896
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Device: Android phone, Kobo Glo HD, nook ST with Glo (backup)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNefario View Post
A lot of people have talked about liberating and backing up their content. Another approach is to recognise what you are actually paying for - a kind of extended rental - and adjust what you are willing to pay for it accordingly.

In my own case, I have never bothered deDRMing any of my Kindle books, even though I vaguely thought I might. They simply never go to my PC. I enjoy the convenience of being able to buy things and have them turn up automatically on my Kindle. I'm not in a great rush to give myself a lot of extra work obtaining and organising the backups.

I might live to regret it, but I have no complaints so far. If I didn't build up so many unread books, I'd probably never care. I'm not a big rereader.
I'm one that liberates my content. It's not a big deal for me, since I get books from multiple sources. When I buy, 90% is from B&N because it's convenient, but I also get a lot of books from the library and some from Google books. Whenever I hook up my nook to add those things, I download the nook books to my pc, strip the drm and back them up in Calibre.

The other reason I do this is in case I switch e-readers at some point, I don't want to lose all my nook titles.
Rich_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:16 AM   #86
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 27,467
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldlyDubious View Post
2) And also I can assure you that we can not wipe out the content on your Kindle, that's up to you.
(...they already demonstrated, thanks to the infamous "1984" episode, that they can)
That Amazon has the ability to remove content from a device does not mean that the technological tools necessary to do so are accessible to everyday customer service reps.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:10 AM   #87
BoldlyDubious
what if...?
BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BoldlyDubious ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
BoldlyDubious's Avatar
 
Posts: 209
Karma: 750870
Join Date: Feb 2011
Device: paper & electrophoretic
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
That Amazon has the ability to remove content from a device does not mean that the technological tools necessary to do so are accessible to everyday customer service reps.
Sorry, but when you ask an Amazon customer service rep what Amazon can or cannot do to your Kindle, what they tell you should and will be treated as concerning Amazon, not the person of the service rep! I suppose that when you go to your bank and give some money to the cashier you assume that you are giving the money to the bank, not personally to the cashier... (otherwise please tell me where your bank is and I will try and get a job there ;-) )
BoldlyDubious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:33 AM   #88
misling
Zealot
misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.misling ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 106
Karma: 510000
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: Kindle
To me one interesting thing about this whole mess, is that the Kindles in question were bought used and/or received as (used/refurbished) replacements. This was true in a previous case as well.
Perhaps the 'questionable account' that keeps being referenced is that of the original owner? That could only be true if the device id is still linked (in amazon's databases) to the original owner in some way, of course.
misling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:47 AM   #89
HomeInMyShoes
Grand Sorcerer
HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HomeInMyShoes ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 19,226
Karma: 67780237
Join Date: Jul 2011
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldlyDubious View Post
I think it's unhealthy that such an unlimited power over their customers is allowed to companies; especially those that deal with important things (for society) like culture.
Given the atrocities within the bookshelves of Amazon, I don't put a lot of credence in their importance with respect to culture.

Unless one is doing nefarious things I doubt one would have much to fear from Amazon. If someone doesn't like it they don't have to buy a Kindle or purchase from Amazon or register their Kindle at all. Corporations serve the bottom line of their investors and not the good of society as a whole.

I choose the poisons I do business with.
HomeInMyShoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:58 AM   #90
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,358
Karma: 5766642
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I don't recall anything (yay or nay) RE Amazon's ability to remotely remove content from a device in their original marketing claims. I'm not saying it might not have been there, only that I don't recall it and would appreciate seeing some corroborating evidence concerning those alleged initial marketing claims.
I recall it distinctly, but I don't keep an archive of old advertising, especially advertising that leaves me uninterested in the product.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kobo Touch User Guide Updated Thasaidon Kobo Reader 3 01-12-2012 12:20 PM
Wish Amazon would post the KFire User Guide jswinden Kindle Fire 9 11-14-2011 03:21 PM
How can an international user buy and use Amazon Kindle? Over Amazon Kindle 16 10-29-2009 06:17 PM
Petition Started to Stop Amazon from Remotely Deleting eBooks from the kindle eReaderPlanet News 14 08-06-2009 03:10 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:05 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.