To Save Free Enterprise, Books Must Die

jgaiser · 05-31-2011, 05:38 PM

A very interesting take by one of the greats of science fiction, Ursula K. Le Guin, on Harper's 26 week limit for library ebooks.

To Save Free Enterprise, Books Must Die

silasgreenback · 05-31-2011, 06:03 PM

She seems like a conflicted lady.

OtterBooks · 05-31-2011, 06:31 PM

By allowing their clients to take out hardcopy books an unlimited number of times before they have to be replaced

that's taking some liberties with the word "unlimited."

nashira · 05-31-2011, 07:21 PM

I'm fairly sure she's actually having a go at harper, even if she hates ebooks in general. :P

Giggleton · 05-31-2011, 09:55 PM

I could never get into her work, maybe I'll try again at some point though, maybe download an epub anthology from the lightnet. If she is a science fiction great as the OP suggests then by definition she should have no qualms about her work being frely shared amongst as many people as possible, agree or disagree?

corona · 05-31-2011, 10:11 PM

Not to muddy the water, but this contrast between "unlimited" life p-books and limited-loan ebooks is a little weak, since libraries have been leasing pbooks for a very long time. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to cover short-term demand for bestsellers, etc. When the leased books get returned, they effectively "expire" -- the lease period is limited contractually and anyway the books have to be sent back.

I'm not defending the HarperCollins policy, which just looks like a way to monetize something you couldn't before. That's capitalism, isn't it? But it's not as if libraries have no experience at all with similar arrangements.

Hellmark · 06-01-2011, 01:18 PM

From what I've seen of her comments, she isn't totally anti ebook, just has issues with how things came about.

Part of her dislike of ereaders may due to her inexperience. There are some more complex readers out there, and it is also the case if you read on tablets, computers and smart phones, where you do have to pay a bit more attention to the device and it distracts you from the reading experience. It is part of why I don't like reading on a computer. When you have a ton of buttons in front of you, or in the case of some apps you have to use the mouse, the use of it isn't as unconscious as it is with a dedicated reader. Dedicated readers are extremely easy to use though, and most are of a sort that I feel she may have better opinions of if given the chance to be shown them.

The other part boils down entirely to the business model. Publishers retroactively claiming exclusivity to ebooks, companies doing things that make the book reading public and the authors bear the brunt of decisions that only serve to profit for the publishers, etc. One of her bigger complaints was about Google Books scanning books without having permission from the copyright holder. While they were still waiting on the courts to decide on the settlement, Google was still scanning regardless. I can understand her having issues with this. It is something special considering she is a opponent of how copyrights have been given such large extensions.

queentess · 06-01-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

If she is a science fiction great as the OP suggests then by definition she should have no qualms about her work being frely shared amongst as many people as possible...

Logic fail.

TGS · 06-01-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashira

I'm fairly sure she's actually having a go at harper, even if she hates ebooks in general. :P

Yes, I think you are right...which makes me wonder what the rest of the posts on this thread are for.

Hellmark · 06-01-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

If she is a science fiction great as the OP suggests then by definition she should have no qualms about her work being frely shared amongst as many people as possible, agree or disagree?

How can you say that? I like Scifi, because things in space or technology beyond what we can do seems interesting, but I don't believe that there should be no copyright. That is like saying because I like Artwork from the USSR, I am a communist when really the things are merely related on the peripheral. Heck, your statement is even further out there than my example.

elcreative · 06-01-2011, 03:41 PM

No... this is giggles... and as for "if she's a science fiction great..." words fail... I'm still delighted to have giggles on ignore, I enjoy MR so much more without him...

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

Logic fail.

Giggleton · 06-01-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

How can you say that? I like Scifi, because things in space or technology beyond what we can do seems interesting, but I don't believe that there should be no copyright. That is like saying because I like Artwork from the USSR, I am a communist when really the things are merely related on the peripheral. Heck, your statement is even further out there than my example.

Because by my definition(the only definition that matters) Science fiction is beneficial to the future of the species, based on the knowledge in the text. Great science fiction should therefore be freely shared, to further our species development.

Logic is itself a failure to think illogically.

Hellmark · 06-01-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Because by my definition(the only definition that matters) Science fiction is beneficial to the future of the species, based on the knowledge in the text. Great science fiction should therefore be freely shared, to further our species development.

Logic is itself a failure to think illogically.

But thinking illogically serves no purpose. If something has logic to it, then it has some basis of support. Math would have no purpose if people thought illogically, because thinking 1+1=3 is illogical. By removing logic from the equation, no one else can see the product and find how it was derived. If you do not know how something came to be, you cannot faithfully reproduce it. If you cannot faithfully reproduce something, you are to be wrought with failure when attempting something that would ordinarily benefit you.

Also, if only what you think matters, then what is the point of communicating with others? Why be here? Surely if you fail to yield, and have the mindset that everyone else is wrong unless they agree with you, it will only cause arguments and push people away from your cause even when you are in situations when people would ordinarily agree with you.

starrigger · 06-01-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashira

I'm fairly sure she's actually having a go at harper, even if she hates ebooks in general. :P

Ms. LeGuin is a founding member of Book View Cafe, an emporium of ebooks. Why would you think she hates ebooks in general?

taustin · 06-01-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

Logic fail.

Indeed. it is common, however, among those who wish to take things they don't belong to them and not pay for them.

Step 1: Find some characteristic about owner of said thing, completely at random.

Step 2: Claim that means they don't mind having their stuff taken.

Step 3: Profit!

Giggles is always good for a laugh.

05-31-2011, 05:38 PM	#1
jgaiser Omnivorous Posts: 3,281 Karma: 27978909 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rural NW Oregon Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle Fire HD, Kindle 3, KPW1	To Save Free Enterprise, Books Must Die A very interesting take by one of the greats of science fiction, Ursula K. Le Guin, on Harper's 26 week limit for library ebooks. To Save Free Enterprise, Books Must Die

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05-31-2011, 06:03 PM	#2
silasgreenback New Leaf Turner Posts: 260 Karma: 1026664 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hadestown Device: Kobo Glo	She seems like a conflicted lady.

05-31-2011, 06:31 PM	#3
OtterBooks Wizard Posts: 1,262 Karma: 2979086 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kindle 4, iPad Mini/Retina	By allowing their clients to take out hardcopy books an unlimited number of times before they have to be replaced that's taking some liberties with the word "unlimited."

05-31-2011, 07:21 PM	#4
nashira Addict Posts: 219 Karma: 73734 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I'm fairly sure she's actually having a go at harper, even if she hates ebooks in general. :P

05-31-2011, 09:55 PM	#5
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	I could never get into her work, maybe I'll try again at some point though, maybe download an epub anthology from the lightnet. If she is a science fiction great as the OP suggests then by definition she should have no qualms about her work being frely shared amongst as many people as possible, agree or disagree?

05-31-2011, 10:11 PM	#6
corona Addict Posts: 324 Karma: 25168 Join Date: May 2010 Device: kobo	Not to muddy the water, but this contrast between "unlimited" life p-books and limited-loan ebooks is a little weak, since libraries have been leasing pbooks for a very long time. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to cover short-term demand for bestsellers, etc. When the leased books get returned, they effectively "expire" -- the lease period is limited contractually and anyway the books have to be sent back. I'm not defending the HarperCollins policy, which just looks like a way to monetize something you couldn't before. That's capitalism, isn't it? But it's not as if libraries have no experience at all with similar arrangements.

06-01-2011, 01:18 PM	#7
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,549 Karma: 3799999 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: O'Fallon, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3	From what I've seen of her comments, she isn't totally anti ebook, just has issues with how things came about. Part of her dislike of ereaders may due to her inexperience. There are some more complex readers out there, and it is also the case if you read on tablets, computers and smart phones, where you do have to pay a bit more attention to the device and it distracts you from the reading experience. It is part of why I don't like reading on a computer. When you have a ton of buttons in front of you, or in the case of some apps you have to use the mouse, the use of it isn't as unconscious as it is with a dedicated reader. Dedicated readers are extremely easy to use though, and most are of a sort that I feel she may have better opinions of if given the chance to be shown them. The other part boils down entirely to the business model. Publishers retroactively claiming exclusivity to ebooks, companies doing things that make the book reading public and the authors bear the brunt of decisions that only serve to profit for the publishers, etc. One of her bigger complaints was about Google Books scanning books without having permission from the copyright holder. While they were still waiting on the courts to decide on the settlement, Google was still scanning regardless. I can understand her having issues with this. It is something special considering she is a opponent of how copyrights have been given such large extensions.