Does UK copyright apply to AUS sourced material?

ShellShock · 04-25-2009, 02:18 PM

George Orwell's works are still in copyright in the UK as he died less than 70 years ago. But they are out of copyright in Australia, where copyright is life + 50 years (Orwell died in 1950). If I obtain 1984 from Project Gutenberg in Australia, then reformat it, is it OK for me to post the result here?

The source comes from Australia.
I'm in the UK.
And the MR servers are in Canada.

So which country's copyright laws apply?

Nate the great · 04-25-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellShock

The source comes from Australia.
I'm in the UK.
And the MR servers are in Canada.

Yes, MobileRead can host it.

netseeker · 04-25-2009, 02:28 PM

For MR: Canada.
For You: UK.

You would download a book which is obviously copyrighted in the UK and then share it. I can't recommend you to do that - even if it would be ok for MR itself.

Jellby · 04-25-2009, 02:40 PM

It would be legal for MR to host it, since it is out of copyright in Canada.

It won't be legal for you to upload it, if you are in the UK. But if you travel to Australia or Canada and upload it from there, then it's fine (I guess).

netseeker · 04-25-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

But if you travel to Australia or Canada and upload it from there, then it's fine (I guess).

This is interesting; can someone confirm Jellby's assumption?

ShellShock · 04-25-2009, 02:52 PM

If I travel to Australia, download it there, reformat it and then upload from Australia, then I assume that would be OK?

But if I download it in the UK from the Australian server, reformat in the UK, then travel to Australia and upload it there--that would not be OK?

Is it even legal for me to download it whilst in the UK?
Is it legal for me to download it but not reformat it?

It is a rather feeble reason to travel half way around the world.

Jellby · 04-25-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellShock

If I travel to Australia, download it there, reformat it and then upload from Australia, then I assume that would be OK?

I think yes.

Quote:

But if I download it in the UK from the Australian server, reformat in the UK, then travel to Australia and upload it there--that would not be OK?

I think not (therefore I am not... no, hold on, that's not what I mean).

Downloading it when you are in the UK is, I believe, not legal. The rest would be legal.

All of this is assuming this does not belong to "fair use" and whatnot.

pdurrant · 04-25-2009, 04:14 PM

You are infringing the copyright if you download it in the UK. You could be sued by the copyright holder for that infringement.

What you do with it after downloading it isn't relevant. Just downloading it while you're in the UK is illegal. But, I think, not criminally illegal, only a civil crime - the police won't come after you about it.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellShock

Is it even legal for me to download it whilst in the UK?
Is it legal for me to download it but not reformat it?

*But IANAL. Don't blame me if you download it and the police break down your door five minuets later. :-)

Patricia · 04-25-2009, 05:03 PM

You may like to know that RWood has already uploaded a version of 1984:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11207

wallcraft · 04-25-2009, 06:25 PM

Also cbell posted a version: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43651. Books with year titles can be hard to find by a search.

netseeker · 04-25-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

You may like to know that RWood has already uploaded a version of 1984:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11207

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Also cbell posted a version: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43651. Books with year titles can be hard to find by a search.

Oh, you are so mean!

First we tell ShellShock that it might not be legal for him to download a version of 1984 and then you show him these great versions...just one click away...

Greg Anos · 04-25-2009, 07:29 PM

ShellShock, this is not just a problem in the UK. The US copyright laws are even weirder. For example, It is legal to upload James Branch Cabell's works in Canada, but only his pre 1923 works in the US. As a US citizen, I can only upload/download what would be legal in the US. However last year, I could not upload anything of James Branch Cabell to MobileRead (Canada) because he had not reached life + 50, even though the pre 1923 works were in the US public domain...

ShellShock · 05-07-2009, 02:47 PM

I found out today that I will probably be travelling to Toronto on business in June. I assume once there I could download Orwell from the Canadian or Australian servers, do the reformatting and then upload to MR?

Global travel and the internet really makes a mockery of national copyrights.

Jellby · 05-08-2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellShock

I found out today that I will probably be travelling to Toronto on business in June. I assume once there I could download Orwell from the Canadian or Australian servers, do the reformatting and then upload to MR?

I guess so. But I'm not sure if you could bring the files back to the UK (I'd say you can, just as you can bring legally bought books), and you won't be allowed to download them from the UK anyway.

However, intentionally travelling to another country in order to do something that is forbidden in your home country might be illegal in your country. Think of children prostitution, euthanasia or abortion...

HarryT · 05-08-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellShock

I found out today that I will probably be travelling to Toronto on business in June. I assume once there I could download Orwell from the Canadian or Australian servers, do the reformatting and then upload to MR?

Global travel and the internet really makes a mockery of national copyrights.

You can upload it to MR regardless - it's pefectly legal to store on MR's Canadian server. The only person who would be technically breaching copyright in uploading from the UK would be you personally, and it's a purely "technical" offence which really nobody is going to care two hoots about.

I think you'll find, though, that we already have pretty much all of Orwell's work in nicely-formatted versions.

04-25-2009, 02:18 PM	#1
ShellShock Wizard Posts: 1,176 Karma: 2431850 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: IPad Mini 2 Retina	Does UK copyright apply to AUS sourced material? George Orwell's works are still in copyright in the UK as he died less than 70 years ago. But they are out of copyright in Australia, where copyright is life + 50 years (Orwell died in 1950). If I obtain 1984 from Project Gutenberg in Australia, then reformat it, is it OK for me to post the result here? The source comes from Australia. I'm in the UK. And the MR servers are in Canada. So which country's copyright laws apply?

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04-25-2009, 02:28 PM	#3
netseeker sleepless reader Posts: 4,763 Karma: 615547 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Germany, near Stuttgart Device: Sony PRS-505, PB 360° & 302, nook wi-fi, Kindle 3	For MR: Canada. For You: UK. You would download a book which is obviously copyrighted in the UK and then share it. I can't recommend you to do that - even if it would be ok for MR itself.

04-25-2009, 02:40 PM	#4
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,516 Karma: 18512745 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	It would be legal for MR to host it, since it is out of copyright in Canada. It won't be legal for you to upload it, if you are in the UK. But if you travel to Australia or Canada and upload it from there, then it's fine (I guess).

04-25-2009, 02:52 PM	#6
ShellShock Wizard Posts: 1,176 Karma: 2431850 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: IPad Mini 2 Retina	If I travel to Australia, download it there, reformat it and then upload from Australia, then I assume that would be OK? But if I download it in the UK from the Australian server, reformat in the UK, then travel to Australia and upload it there--that would not be OK? Is it even legal for me to download it whilst in the UK? Is it legal for me to download it but not reformat it? It is a rather feeble reason to travel half way around the world.

04-25-2009, 05:03 PM	#9
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	You may like to know that RWood has already uploaded a version of 1984: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11207

04-25-2009, 06:25 PM	#10
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,975 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	Also cbell posted a version: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43651. Books with year titles can be hard to find by a search.

04-25-2009, 07:29 PM	#12
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,248 Karma: 35000000 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	ShellShock, this is not just a problem in the UK. The US copyright laws are even weirder. For example, It is legal to upload James Branch Cabell's works in Canada, but only his pre 1923 works in the US. As a US citizen, I can only upload/download what would be legal in the US. However last year, I could not upload anything of James Branch Cabell to MobileRead (Canada) because he had not reached life + 50, even though the pre 1923 works were in the US public domain...

05-07-2009, 02:47 PM	#13
ShellShock Wizard Posts: 1,176 Karma: 2431850 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: IPad Mini 2 Retina	I found out today that I will probably be travelling to Toronto on business in June. I assume once there I could download Orwell from the Canadian or Australian servers, do the reformatting and then upload to MR? Global travel and the internet really makes a mockery of national copyrights.

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