Page numbers on the Kindle Touch

[dwig]

Originally Posted by ruddell

...Yes, Calibre lets you do this - and quite well. But it functions the same as the page numbers Amazon provides on the Kindle books...

Yes, and then again, no.

While the calibre generated pages numbers display the same as Amazon's, they are quite different in reality.

Calibre's faux page numbers are generated based on numbers of bytes in the data file, in much the same way as the Mobi/Kindle Location numbers and the ADE faux page numbers seen in many ePub readers. Calibre's data blocks are much larger than those used for Locations and are much more like the size of those used by ADE.

The Amazon/Kindle supplied page numbers are real page numbers. They aren't page numbers in the ebook as ebooks do not have pages and hence can't really have their own page numbers. They are the real page numbers for some printed edition of the same title. The specific printed edition is identified by ISBN. This method is accurate for scholarly references, as are MOBI Locations. Systems that count "screens", even when they are called "pages" as in LRF readers, are useless for scholarly referencing.

Personally, I'm fine with Locations. I'm intelligent enough to not need the count to be labeled "pages", or to I need the numbers to resemble a data block similar in size to any particular page size in some printed book from the previous millennium. I've read ebooks for long enough (~20 years overall and MOBI format for over a decade) that Locations are a meaningful to me as pages.

[howyoudoin]

Intelligence has nothing to do with a preference for Amazon or Calibre's 'page numbers' over locations. Calibre's page numbering system works on a similar principle to locations, except that they output units that are closer to real life page numbers than locations. They're just different units of measurement. Wanting to use these 'page numbers' in a book is like preferring to use a larger unit of measurement like a metre to measure the length of a football field, instead of an unweildly unit like a centimetre or millimetre. Sure, you might be comfortable with marking out the units of such a length using millimetres, but it cannot be claimed as a sign of intelligence to prefer it to measuring it in metres.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Intelligence has nothing to do with a preference for Amazon or Calibre's 'page numbers' over locations. Calibre's page numbering system works on a similar principle to locations, except that they output units that are closer to real life page numbers than locations. They're just different units of measurement. Wanting to use these 'page numbers' in a book is like preferring to use a larger unit of measurement like a metre to measure the length of a football field, instead of an unweildly unit like a centimetre or millimetre. Sure, you might be comfortable with marking out the units of such a length using millimetres, but it cannot be claimed as a sign of intelligence to prefer it to measuring it in metres.

The two systems serve different purposes, of course. The primary purpose of a location number is to give someone a precise reference within a book. If you refer to text at a particular location, a reader can go to that location, and they will be assured of finding that text on their screen, regardless of their choice of font size.

Page numbers - real or "faked" - do not offer that capability, since a single "page" will generally span several screens-worth of text on the Kindle. If you give someone a page number as a reference, they will very likely not see the text that you're referring to on the screen, but will have to page one or more screens backwards or forwards to find it.

[orlok]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you refer to text at a particular location, a reader can go to that location, and they will be assured of finding that text on their screen, regardless of their choice of font size.

I'm not sure how often in reality you would need to do that, unless you were a teacher.

I have however had occassion to look up a reference in a paper book after looking at the ebook version (an image I couldn't read properly), and using location is of no use in this case. Page number was the only way, and it tallied almost exactly .

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by orlok

I'm not sure how often in reality you would need to do that, unless you were a teacher.

More use if you're a student - for referencing a position in a book.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The two systems serve different purposes, of course. The primary purpose of a location number is to give someone a precise reference within a book. If you refer to text at a particular location, a reader can go to that location, and they will be assured of finding that text on their screen, regardless of their choice of font size.

Page numbers - real or "faked" - do not offer that capability, since a single "page" will generally span several screens-worth of text on the Kindle. If you give someone a page number as a reference, they will very likely not see the text that you're referring to on the screen, but will have to page one or more screens backwards or forwards to find it.

Allowing people to reference to specific portions of a book is only one purpose of page numbers. Outside of textbooks and manuals and the like, I do not share your view that that is the primary purpose of page numbers. Page numbers also provide a way for readers to gauge their progress through a book, and that is something readers do far more frequently. This is the reason why readers here demand easy access to Calibre/Amazon generated page numbers on ebooks. Locations serve the same purpose, but they're not familiar or intuitive units of measurement, unlike Calibre/Amazon generated page numbers which are close enough to reality to suffice. The readers who want page numbers make their demand in this context. Physical book level accuracy or consistency is not a pre-requisite because they're not making this demand for purposes of referencing to specific pages.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Allowing people to reference to specific portions of a book is only one purpose of page numbers. Outside of textbooks and manuals and the like, I do not share your view that that is the primary purpose of page numbers.

I didn't say it was the primary purpose of page numbers - indeed, I'm quite certain it's not. I said that it was (probably) the primary reason that locations are so finely divided, and that page numbers are not a substitute for locations for that very reason.

The original purpose of page numbers was simply to allow the printer to assemble the book with the pages in the correct order.

[gezginorman]

Hi, this is exactly what i'm looking for, could you tell a bit more about how it's done?

Thanks

Originally Posted by ixtab

Screenshot ahead...



So much for the statement "no, this is absolutely impossible and totally useless". It took me 20 minutes to find what needs to be changed to enable this.

The real problem is that (and here, HarryT is right) this is not initially supported by Amazon. This means that some patching of the framework files is necessary. Which means jailbreak, potential update troubles etc. If it's worth this for you, let me know.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Which I answered very clearly in post #2 - "no". Given that this question has been put to bed we can now discuss more interesting philosophical matters such as "do page numbers have any meaning in an eBook" .

I don't know about the Kindle Touch, but the Kindle Paperwhite 1 *can* do it, and some of the functionality of the KPW1 has been backported to the Touch. I don't remember which functions, however. Maybe by upgrading the firmware, the touch will gain this function, replace the location with page numbers.

===

With regard to usefulness of the page numbers: they are useful to me. I've counted the number of characters on a page, in several paperbacks, and came to the conclusion that, in mine, the average was 2100 characters (2400 if I only use Del Rey paperbacks from the 90's).

Thus, I have Count Pages set to 2100 characters, and the page numbers are in the same ballpark as the ones for the paperback version; by +/- 10% or so. If the paperback is about 350 pages, Count Pages will normally count something like 315-385 pages.

I use a plugboard to append the page number to the title, when uploading a book to the reader. Having the page number behind the title gives me a way of accurately determine how long it will take me to read a book; sometimes I'm just NOT in the mood to start a 1000 page long book. One reason can be that I don't have a lot of time, and the book would take way too long read; then I'd rather read something light, like 250 pages, or a book containing short stories.

I don't really mind what page numbering scheme the reader uses. If the reader can use the pages as set by Count Pages (the KPW1 can), then I use page numbers; if the reader can't, I use percentage. If the reader displays "20% read", I know I'm at around page 70 of a 350 page book. Knowing I have 280 pages to go, gives me a more accurate way to determine how far along I am in the book, as compared to knowing that I still have 80% to read. (80% of what; 10 pages? 20.000?)

So yeah, page numbers are quite useful to me, even in an e-book, if only for comparison purposes. I like them better than locations, because they normally don't go into the tens of thousands, except when reading Delphi Classics in one piece.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

I don't know about the Kindle Touch, but the Kindle Paperwhite 1 *can* do it, and some of the functionality of the KPW1 has been backported to the Touch. I don't remember which functions, however. Maybe by upgrading the firmware, the touch will gain this function, replace the location with page numbers.

This is a 4-year-old thread. A lot's changed in that time.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

This is a 4-year-old thread.

Njaaargh....