Gen3 New Firmware build 796 available for CyBook Gen3

[GeoffC]

mayhap the programming department got flooded out .....

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by Godzil

No, you said that there is 3 different hardware version of the Gen3, and I answer you "no there are only 2"

Hey, I just picked up your point that different models/hardware is possibly what causes the delay. I think you're right on that, explains everything...

Then you began bean counting... Does it really matter if it's 2, 3 or 27 different hardware revisions (I don't think so)?! And what finished me off, was when you started to tell me how similar the different models were basically...

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by tompe

Well, I would try to make it one firmware and just have checks for the hardware in the boot process. I do not think very much is added to the size of the firmware for this. I think tha advantage of having just one firmware is pretty big so it is worth the trouble to get it to work.

Another alternative is to have one installer blob that installs different firmware depending on the hardware.

As far as I've heard the Opus hardware differs quite a bit from the Cybook hardware (accelometer, different buttons, etc) so there will be significant differences in the handling of the user input. That alone would merit two separate builds.

But what's more is that the Opus is a new line of their product. I know that from the current state of affairs it's hard for me to argue, but if I were Bookeen I would try to offer quick bug fixes and relatively frequent new features in the beginning of a new product line. When I introduce a new line I would increase the intervals between FW release for "old" lines and focus more on the new line. That would be very hard to do if I tried to make a "universal" FW for all my lines rolled into one. Especially the introduction of new features for the new line would be severely complicated if you have to be extra careful not to break the backwards support for the old lines which might not even get that particular feature.

I know it's very hard to argue in this case because increasing the intervals between releases for everything pre-Opus would be pretty hard to manage but if Bookeen wanted to improve things it would be a lot harder.

[Godzil]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

As far as I've heard the Opus hardware differs quite a bit from the Cybook hardware (accelometer, different buttons, etc) so there will be significant differences in the handling of the user input. That alone would merit two separate builds.

How could you say that ? There are number of products that change externally but still be the same internally. Button position does not mean "need new way to address the buttons" The accelerometer will only need a new driver that activate only if it's present etc... Sorry, but I really don't think they need two separate build since the hardware is pretty much the same...

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by Godzil

How could you say that ? There are number of products that change externally but still be the same internally. Button position does not mean "need new way to address the buttons" The accelerometer will only need a new driver that activate only if it's present etc... Sorry, but I really don't think they need two separate build since the hardware is pretty much the same...

Of course it's possible to activate a driver just when the hardware component is present but I assume there will be some functionality implemented which uses the accelometer. All these functions will have no use in a Cybook and for all functions in the UI which can make use of the accelometer there has to be another version without the accelometer or otherwise the Cybook users could not use that portion of the UI. So basically when using the accelometer you would always have to think: Ok, good. Now, how do we implement that for the Cybook users.
And think of what happens if you have to update the driver for the accelometer or change some code for checking the position of the accelometer: You would always have to do a full test cycle with the 2 Cybook versions before you could release it, even though they are not (and therefore should not) be affected by the change.

Also it's certainly makes no difference where the buttons are places but as far as I could make out on the screenshots the Opus has a different number of buttons and different functionality for the buttons (e.g. the "back" und "menu" is not in the Cybook). This is based on what I saw on a few screenshots so I might be wrong there, in that case disregard the argument :-)

[Godzil]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

Of course it's possible to activate a driver just when the hardware component is present but I assume there will be some functionality implemented which uses the accelometer. All these functions will have no use in a Cybook and for all functions in the UI which can make use of the accelometer there has to be another version without the accelometer or otherwise the Cybook users could not use that portion of the UI.

I don't agree, this is not true, there could be some part of the code that only apply in some case and you can never use it. Look for Windows or Mac OS X for exemple, there are a lot of things that maybe 70% of the user didn't use, or even didn't even know it exist. There is even some things that only depend on some hardware. For a simple exemple, if you have no Wifi network card, you will not install a version of windows that have not Wifi support, you will install the same version as everyone, even if the wifi drivers/application is never run on you computer.

So basically when using the accelometer you would always have to think: Ok, good. Now, how do we implement that for the Cybook users.

There is no real difficulty to say "this part of the code will only run if there is this or this conditions" etc..

And think of what happens if you have to update the driver for the accelometer or change some code for checking the position of the accelometer: You would always have to do a full test cycle with the 2 Cybook versions before you could release it, even though they are not (and therefore should not) be affected by the change.

Of course not, if the accelerometer is piloted by a driver, the only thing on the gen3 you have to test is that is say "ho there is no accelerometer here, I will do nothing" that will not take a long time to do.

Also it's certainly makes no difference where the buttons are places but as far as I could make out on the screenshots the Opus has a different number of buttons and different functionality for the buttons (e.g. the "back" und "menu" is not in the Cybook). This is based on what I saw on a few screenshots so I might be wrong there, in that case disregard the argument :-)

You are wrong, there are only two more button on the Gen3.
On the left side of the gen3 you have "Music", "Menu", "Back", "Delete" and on the right side "+", "-" and the fiveway button on the front.

The Opus have "Menu", "Back" the fiveway button and "PageUp", "PageDown"

(and changinn "dynamicaly" (hum thinks it's less dynamic than static) the mean of buttons is not a hard task) If there is a button driver, it only need to say different thing for a button, even if on the other board it is driven the sameway.

I really doubt that booken have the time and manpower to manage two or more different board that will need for each a special version of the firmware/application. I think that they, for now, prefere to have the less to do about differences of the Gen3 and the Opus.

[Snuffi]

Windows is not a really good example. It's huge and designed by a large company with tons of money to run on as many different computers as possible. As a small company I would not try to take MS as an example of whether it is possible to support all my devices with just one FW. It *is* possible, of course, I just argued that it is - in my personal opinion - not always practical and economical to do that.

Originally Posted by Godzil

There is no real difficulty to say "this part of the code will only run if there is this or this conditions" etc..
Of course not, if the accelerometer is piloted by a driver, the only thing on the gen3 you have to test is that is say "ho there is no accelerometer here, I will do nothing" that will not take a long time to do.

Basically yes, but as we all know: Everyone makes mistakes and more lines of code and more complicated structure makes mistakes more likely. Also if you have two versions of functions (like one with and one without the accelometer) the programmer needs to be extra careful: no copy-pasting between the to functions, not forgetting to fix stuff in both functions, etc.

If you have dedicated programmers who work carefully, it's most definitely not a problem, I agree. In practice, though, you have programmers who are very short on time ("hurry, the customers are waiting"), constantly changing (and we know what happens if the new programmer has to debug his predecessor's code) and usually can't work continuously on the same part of the code (in my experience there were always changes in priority, like e.g. "drop the folder view stuff, we have to get ePub done ASAP").
With that in mind, being a small company with limited manpower, I would try to keep my code as tidy and simple as possible - and that includes keeping code which does not belong to the current project/device out of the programmer's way...

I have learned through our discussion, though, that it might be more a matter of personal style how to handle things like that than I had thought. So, even though I had thought that my arguments were objective, you obviously still think differently, so there is obviously no "one and only" way. Maybe Bookeen thinks like you and you are right after all...

Originally Posted by Godzil

You are wrong, there are only two more button on the Gen3.
On the left side of the gen3 you have "Music", "Menu", "Back", "Delete" and on the right side "+", "-" and the fiveway button on the front.

The Cybook has a "menu" and "back" button on the side? Can't check now but if it's there I have never used them. For menu I press the center button and if the menu doesn't get closed by choosing an option anyway I get back to the book by pressing the "left" or "right" button. Strange thing, though, I could have sworn it was just "Music" and "Delete" on the left side...

[GeoffC]

definitely 4 buttons on the left side .....

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

The Cybook has a "menu" and "back" button on the side? Can't check now but if it's there I have never used them. For menu I press the center button and if the menu doesn't get closed by choosing an option anyway I get back to the book by pressing the "left" or "right" button. Strange thing, though, I could have sworn it was just "Music" and "Delete" on the left side...

It has 4 buttons on the left side: Music - Menu - Back - Delete. And you really need them, as the Menu-Button is the only way to get to the menu in library view (with the center button you open the selected book). And the Back-Button is the best way to get back from a dictionary search (with center button you need 2 presses).

BTW: If Bookeen puts just half of the time in finishing the FW, like you and Godzil discussing it's problems, it'd be ready by tomorrow... (sorry, couldn't resist)

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

It has 4 buttons on the left side: Music - Menu - Back - Delete. And you really need them, as the Menu-Button is the only way to get to the menu in library view (with the center button you open the selected book). And the Back-Button is the best way to get back from a dictionary search (with center button you need 2 presses).

I am an idiot. And the worst thing is that I must have used the menu button a long, long time ago because I faintly remember I was in the library menu... One gets so used to doing things the same way over that one actually forgets there are alternatives...

Originally Posted by gerraldo

BTW: If Bookeen puts just half of the time in finishing the FW, like you and Godzil discussing it's problems, it'd be ready by tomorrow... (sorry, couldn't resist)

They could hire us as consultants. We'd have plenty of input

[JSWolf]

All I can say at the moment...

Bitching and moaning isn't going to get Bookeen to release the new firmware any faster.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

All I can say at the moment...

Bitching and moaning isn't going to get Bookeen to release the new firmware any faster.

Maybe if someone were to send the link to this poll *to* Bookeen, they might get the hint???

But I've voted "Never". That way, *IF* Bookeen finally delivers a firmware update, I can be pleasantly surprised - NOT!

Derek

[T_Frain_K]

You´re starting to confuse a number of firmware-moaning-threads
No offence, Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by T_Frain_K

You´re starting to confuse a number of firmware-moaning-threads
No offence, Derek

So I noticed about 15 minutes AFTER I posted.

Derek