Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Kobo Reader

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-15-2012, 09:23 AM   #16
nogle
Gangnam style!
nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 373
Karma: 3646106
Join Date: Aug 2011
Device: Kobo
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeigneurAo View Post
Well IIRC the problem is precisely that you never really own an ebook.
You buy a right to possess and read a copy, but the product is not yours entirely, to dispose of as you wish.
I may stand corrected but that's what I recall about digital material (same goes for digital music).
Not just eBooks. When you buy a physical book, you do not get the right to make and distribute copies. Read the copyright notice inside any book.
nogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 09:25 AM   #17
SeigneurAo
Connoisseur
SeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the end
 
SeigneurAo's Avatar
 
Posts: 62
Karma: 31414
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: France
Device: Kobo Glo
Quote:
Originally Posted by nogle View Post
Not just eBooks. When you buy a physical book, you do not get the right to make and distribute copies. Read the copyright notice inside any book.
No but you can surely lend it to a friend or sell it on the second hand market.
SeigneurAo is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 10-15-2012, 09:28 AM   #18
nogle
Gangnam style!
nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 373
Karma: 3646106
Join Date: Aug 2011
Device: Kobo
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusmee View Post
If I own something, I should be entitled to let a friend borrow it for a while. I can't believe anyone can reasonably argue against this.
You are free to hand them your eReader with the book on it for as long as you/they desire. Just as long as you don't make and distribute copies of the book. Even with a physical book, you do not buy the right to make copies.
nogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 10:33 AM   #19
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,092
Karma: 63038455
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Glo HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeigneurAo View Post
Okay so I have not been able to locate this in Kobo terms just yet, but here goes for Amazon and Kindle :

Source
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=201014950
(Paragraph 1.1 Use of Kindle Content)

Mark the bold text. AFAIK this is the same for most ebooks sellers.
If your going to go by the EULA, then you should probably go by the copyright notice in the pbooks you buy, for example (the relevant portion):
Quote:
... No part of the book may be used or reproduced in any manner whatsoever without written permission except...
I wonder how many readers check with the copyright holder first to see if it is OK to read the pbook?
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 10:38 AM   #20
SeigneurAo
Connoisseur
SeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the end
 
SeigneurAo's Avatar
 
Posts: 62
Karma: 31414
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: France
Device: Kobo Glo
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
If your going to go by the EULA, then you should probably go by the copyright notice in the pbooks you buy, for example (the relevant portion):
I wonder how many readers check with the copyright holder first to see if it is OK to read the pbook?
The main difference being, in my opinion, that with ebooks editors do have the means to enforce these policies, whereas it is quite complicated with paper books, as you rightly put it.
SeigneurAo is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 10-15-2012, 11:08 AM   #21
David Soulayrol
Member
David Soulayrol doesn't litterDavid Soulayrol doesn't litter
 
Posts: 15
Karma: 156
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Brittany, France
Device: Kobo Glo
When you buy a book, you really buy an object. You can read it, multiple time, give it, sell it, you can throw it in the corner of your room and find it again months later. The main ban is that you cannot copy it. But this ban, the subject of the copyright, applies to the content, not the object.

With a A DRM protected file, you own really nothing else than the right to access to some content as long as some organization authorizes it, and only with the softwares they accept. And the copyright still applies to the content.
David Soulayrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 11:26 AM   #22
G0AT
Addict
G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.G0AT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 201
Karma: 1937857
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ottawa
Device: Kobo
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Soulayrol View Post
When you buy a book, you really buy an object. You can read it, multiple time, give it, sell it, you can throw it in the corner of your room and find it again months later. The main ban is that you cannot copy it. But this ban, the subject of the copyright, applies to the content, not the object.

With a A DRM protected file, you own really nothing else than the right to access to some content as long as some organization authorizes it, and only with the softwares they accept. And the copyright still applies to the content.
This isn't wrong, but as long as people are paying similar prices as pbooks, they're going to expect to be able to do the same things with their ebooks. So the publisher's pricing and the consumer's rights are out of whack.
G0AT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 11:28 AM   #23
nogle
Gangnam style!
nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 373
Karma: 3646106
Join Date: Aug 2011
Device: Kobo
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeigneurAo View Post
The main difference being, in my opinion, that with ebooks editors do have the means to enforce these policies, whereas it is quite complicated with paper books, as you rightly put it.
In the past, book publishers could rely upon the fact that it was prohibitively expensive to make small numbers of copies of a book. Rather than photocopy or pay a scribe to correctly transcribe a book. it was cheaper to just buy another copy. With digital files, the effective price of a user copying a book approaches 0. Thus, publishers have sought out other means of reducing the incentive to copy.
nogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 11:33 AM   #24
nogle
Gangnam style!
nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.nogle ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 373
Karma: 3646106
Join Date: Aug 2011
Device: Kobo
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Soulayrol View Post
When you buy a book, you really buy an object. You can read it, multiple time, give it, sell it, you can throw it in the corner of your room and find it again months later. The main ban is that you cannot copy it. But this ban, the subject of the copyright, applies to the content, not the object.

With a A DRM protected file, you own really nothing else than the right to access to some content as long as some organization authorizes it, and only with the softwares they accept. And the copyright still applies to the content.
With a physical book, if you forget how to read or burn your book, you also lose the book. With an eBook, as long as you maintain software capable of reading the file, you can read it (assuming again that you maintian the ability to read). As far as I am aware, the onus is on the user to maintain the ability (software) to access the file.
nogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 11:59 AM   #25
David Soulayrol
Member
David Soulayrol doesn't litterDavid Soulayrol doesn't litter
 
Posts: 15
Karma: 156
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Brittany, France
Device: Kobo Glo
Quote:
Originally Posted by nogle View Post
With an eBook, as long as you maintain software capable of reading the file, you can read it (assuming again that you maintian the ability to read). As far as I am aware, the onus is on the user to maintain the ability (software) to access the file.
The problem is precisely that you don't have the possibility to maintain the way to open DRM files by yourself. DRM are closed-source, protected by patents, and it is generally illegal to circumvent them. So owning a DRM protected file is simply owning the authorization to read its content for an undefined duration.

Of course, if the DRM is no more protected, or if the law changes, then you are right. But in this case, the DRM have no more purpose.
David Soulayrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 01:21 PM   #26
filmo
Wizard
filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.filmo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,326
Karma: 1077205
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: Kobo Touch, Sony T1, Kobo Mini
Amazon has lend a book to a one friend with a kindle for 14 days system. Publishers limit which books you can lend. Kobo never had this lending system but you could borrow e-books from pubic library for reading on Kobo reader long before this was possible with kindle readers.
filmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 01:35 PM   #27
SeigneurAo
Connoisseur
SeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the endSeigneurAo knows the complete value of PI to the end
 
SeigneurAo's Avatar
 
Posts: 62
Karma: 31414
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: France
Device: Kobo Glo
I don't know exactly what a pubic library might be, but I'm pretty sure I'd like to visit one.
SeigneurAo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 06:37 PM   #28
jusmee
Wizard
jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,047
Karma: 203682
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Libre 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeigneurAo View Post
No but you can surely lend it to a friend or sell it on the second hand market.
Sure can.

The point about "sales" of digital media vs licencing to view, made me think of DVD's also. I can buy a DVD and lend it to a friend. I can buy a CD and lend it to a friend. Ebook sellers are being too greedy IMO.
jusmee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 06:42 PM   #29
jusmee
Wizard
jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,047
Karma: 203682
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Libre 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Soulayrol View Post
The problem is precisely that you don't have the possibility to maintain the way to open DRM files by yourself. DRM are closed-source, protected by patents, and it is generally illegal to circumvent them. So owning a DRM protected file is simply owning the authorization to read its content for an undefined duration.

Of course, if the DRM is no more protected, or if the law changes, then you are right. But in this case, the DRM have no more purpose.
Yes, but a mechanism is designed into them to allow lending/borrowing. Libraries use it. When ebooks were touted in the news, this ability was mentioned in the context of person to person loaning "just like a real book". It's a feature they have conveniently not allowed for in their desktop/reader software (e.g. ADE).
jusmee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 06:46 PM   #30
jusmee
Wizard
jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,047
Karma: 203682
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Libre 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeigneurAo View Post
I don't know exactly what a pubic library might be, but I'm pretty sure I'd like to visit one.
In my case a public library is a government run facility with a large collection of books, where you can go and read the books for free, and also go and borrow books for set time periods (2 weeks, 4 weeks etc) and take them home and read them for free, returning them within the borrowing period.

More recently, you can go the library's web site and borrow ebooks, again for a limited time period. You don't have to return them, they expire after the time period. By expire, I mean the DRM ceases to allow you to open and read them after they have expired.
jusmee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
gifted Kindle books (sent to a friend) HelenaJole Amazon Kindle 5 03-25-2011 12:39 AM
Sharing some of my books with a friend babychaos Library Management 2 02-07-2011 12:19 PM
'Lending' DRM eBooks? curtw Sony Reader 10 01-18-2008 08:48 AM
Reading e-books together with a friend or significant other Bob Russell Lounge 17 07-09-2007 02:27 PM
E-books: Man's second-best friend Brian News 15 09-18-2005 11:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:30 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.