MobileRead September 2011 Mobile Read Book Club Vote

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by alansplace

i now get it,

When I look at your location on Google Maps it looks like some type of mall or something?

BOb

[JSWolf]

What I am reading s that when we get to the point of books that looks like they have no chance of winning, they don't get voted on even if they may have been the ones wanted. So what happens if the two or three books that have a chance of winning get voted on. And the ones that have no chance of winning won't win because of this. If everyone actually voted for what was wanted and NOT because it might be a wasted vote, then we may very well have a different result.

What is the problem with giving a blind vote a try? Does it mean that because you won't be seeing who voted for what, you cannot make up your own minds? I'm getting that sort of vibe from some.

Be honest here... who did not vote for the book he/she wanted because it seems to have no chance of winning and instead voted for one of the the two front runners instead?

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What is the problem with giving a blind vote a try? Does it mean that because you won't be seeing who voted for what, you cannot make up your own minds? I'm getting that sort of vibe from some.

I expect most people would try it at least once. But, doing it via PM is going to make participation go down quite a bit, and we don't want that.

BOb

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I expect most people would try it at least once. But, doing it via PM is going to make participation go down quite a bit, and we don't want that.

BOb

Well, unless someone wants to write custom voting code, there's noting else we can do. Unless we can get Alex to strip out the see poll results link even if that means losing it for all polls.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

It's sort of the way people vote for president. The usually vote for the major parties because they don't think the Libertarian or Green candidate will win even thought they would prefer if they did. So, they vote for the least of two evils.

My son has suggested ranked voting, which I guess some other countries use in their elections. So, you rank each option so you can list the one your REALLY want as number 1, then your second pref as 2, etc.

Of course, our polling system doesn't allow for such stuff. Perhaps there is a third part voting system that we could use... but, I think that would lower participation unless it could be done inline here and still only allow 1 vote per user without having them log in there too.

As Jon said, I was never against a blind vote, I would have done it, but the forum doesn't do it "yet". However, it never bothered me of the voters enough to manually tally votes or ranks.

BOb

As I understand it that sort of voting system works by assigning second choice votes of voters whose first choice cannot win straight up to their second choice, perhaps producing a winner that would not of come in first only counting first choice votes, indeed it could produce a winner that was well down the ranking counting only first place votes? Sounds complicated and dubious for use here, with ten possible choices.

I hate to suggest a poll, but what we seem to have here is a group that wants totally blind voting versus those who want to see the poll in progress and may not wish to essentially waste their vote on a first choice if they feel it would be better put to use helping a second choice win? So have a poll on this idea? I do not see that there is any valid argument to be made that either is more fair or moral than the other.

[WT Sharpe]

FWIW, I'm looking into the possibility of having a blind poll added as an option. If it's possible to do without too much work on the part of those who write the code, it would be interesting and perhaps profitable, I think, to at least experiment with the idea of not being able to view the results until the voting period has ended.

As to the separate issue of hiding who voted for what, we can do that already, but I'm not so sure that all our members favor it. I know I don't.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

FWIW, I'm looking into the possibility of having a blind poll added as an option. If it's possible to do without too much work on the part of those who write the code, it would be interesting and perhaps profitable, I think, to at least experiment with the idea of not being able to view the results until the voting period has ended.

As to the separate issue of hiding who voted for what, we can do that already, but I'm not so sure that all our members favor it. I know I don't.

That would be great if this could be done. I'm not against hiding who voted for what until after the vote has been cast. Then we can see who's voted for what.

This will be an interesting experiment. I'm interested in how much closer the results will be. I do think they will be closer.

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

FWIW, I'm looking into the possibility of having a blind poll added as an option. If it's possible to do without too much work on the part of those who write the code, it would be interesting and perhaps profitable, I think, to at least experiment with the idea of not being able to view the results until the voting period has ended.

Just curious, on what basis will you come to any conclusion?

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

As I understand it that sort of voting system works by assigning second choice votes of voters whose first choice cannot win straight up to their second choice, perhaps producing a winner that would not of come in first only counting first choice votes, indeed it could produce a winner that was well down the ranking counting only first place votes? Sounds complicated and dubious for use here, with ten possible choices.

Ranked voting isn't really that complicated. Also, you don't have to rank "every" option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_...voting_methods

The most common ranked voting method is instant-runoff voting (IRV), also known as the "alternative vote" or simply preferential voting, which uses voters' preferences to simulate an elimination runoff election without multiple voting events. As the votes are tallied, the option with the fewest first-choice votes is eliminated. In successive rounds of counting, the next preferred choice still available from each eliminated ballot is transferred to candidates not yet eliminated. The least preferred option is eliminated in each round of counting until there is a majority winner, with all ballots being considered in every round of counting.

Of course, it would be nice if the forum software poll module supported it.

BOb

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

Just curious, on what basis will you come to any conclusion?

I'm a bit confused as to your meaning. If you mean how would we know which book won if such a system were implemented, the results would be fully visible at the end of the voting period, just as they are now all through the process.

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

FWIW, I'm looking into the possibility of having a blind poll added as an option. If it's possible to do without too much work on the part of those who write the code, it would be interesting and perhaps profitable, I think, to at least experiment with the idea of not being able to view the results until the voting period has ended.

As to the separate issue of hiding who voted for what, we can do that already, but I'm not so sure that all our members favor it. I know I don't.

Thanks Tom!

It would be interesting to experiment with hidden polling if possible and see what happens. The positives include that no one will be influenced by other votes, while the negatives include that the discussion during voting may (or may not) be diminished.

I would suggest that if we do get a hidden polling option, that we don't ask that members not discuss what they voted for in the thread. I think we should still have the freedom to talk up our choices if we so desire. Not only that, but it would be hard to enforce a rule like that as anyone could still post their choice regardless, so it seems better just to let everyone say what they like while still keeping the poll hidden.

As to anonymous voting on visible poll results, I suggest a poll if it's not obvious what we as a group prefer. As to whether that poll should be anonymous or not, well, that's a philosophical question that you will have to ponder.

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I'm a bit confused as to your meaning. If you mean how would we know which book won if such a system were implemented, the results would be fully visible at the end of the voting period, just as they are now all through the process.

No I meant something more significant. How will you come to any sort of conclusion that the blind vote produced a better (whatever that means) or even different result than would have been produced by the current system?

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

No I meant something more significant. How will you come to any sort of conclusion that the blind vote produced a better (whatever that means) or even different result than would have been produced by the current system?

Perhaps he wouldn't, but rather would go with the group sentiment of which we prefer after trying it. And if it's unclear, of course, we can always start another poll!

Now, as to whether that poll would be anonymous or not, and also whether it would be hidden or visible, well, hey have you ever heard that one about the tree falling in the forest with no one around?

[lila55]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

In other words, you aren't voting for what you want, your voting for what someone else wants. This sort of thing is what a blind vote is meant to do away with. It's meant for you to vote for what you want, and not vote based on what someone else voted for.

I am sorry you feel you cannot vote if you cannot see what others have voted for before you cast your vote.

The reasons I'm seeing for not having a blind vote are the very reasons we should have a blind vote.

Sorry, I could not answer earlier - real life got in the way.

I did not mean to imply that I cannot vote for a book without the guidance of somebody else. What I did mean to say is that I find it in general interesting to see the tastes of other forum members in books , so that when I come across a recommendation from somebody in another thread in MR, I have a better feel if that particular book might be also to my liking.

In order to vote I am absolutely capable of making up my own mind.

[lila55]

Originally Posted by issybird

Even when I don't care for the winner, I usually find a book or three I'd like to read among the nominations.

Same here.