Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-10-2010, 03:27 PM   #1
demingite
Connoisseur
demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.demingite ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 70
Karma: 400000
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Mexico
Device: Aluratek Libre Pro (gifted), Ectaco Jetbook Lite
Article on ebook profits

or lack thereof:

http://www.itworld.com/tech-amp-soci...ech_2010-12-10

No wonder publishing is in trouble - they don't even know if they are making money or not.
demingite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 06:16 PM   #2
JeremyR
Guru
JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JeremyR's Avatar
 
Posts: 973
Karma: 2458402
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: St. Louis
Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+
I suspect the book industry is a lot like the movie industry - creative accounting is used a lot.
JeremyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 12-10-2010, 06:40 PM   #3
Elfwreck
Grand Sorcerer
Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Elfwreck's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,185
Karma: 25133758
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)
66% have no clear idea if they're even making money from ebook sales

Ebooks don't fit their current economic models. The cost of making them is unknown (do they count just the handful of hours it takes to reformat the print-ready version, or do they split the full production costs among hardcover, trade, mm & ebook versions?); the costs of distribution are hard to calculate (how much does server space & payment processing cost, anyway?), the costs of advertising are incomprehensible. Of course they don't know whether or not the money they've made selling ebooks--which they could certainly describe in great detail, if they wished--counts as "profit" for the concept of ebooks.

It's a new marketplace. If an ebook doesn't sell well, is that because the public doesn't like that title, or because they offered it only at Amazon and most of that author's readers are ePub fans? They know how to decide which books to release only as MMPB and which ones they believe will have hardcover appeal; they don't know how that works with ebooks yet. They don't know how many projected sales would make a book worth releasing as an ebook.

And--heh--they really don't know how to deal with direct public feedback, and how to consider the costs of that as part of the books' economy.
Elfwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 06:48 PM   #4
CazMar
Book Geek
CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 596
Karma: 1499085
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Device: Kobo Touch, Asus MemPad 7" tablet, Nexus 5, Asus 10" tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
I suspect the book industry is a lot like the movie industry - creative accounting is used a lot.
As someone who spent their entire working life in finance - creative accounting is used quite extensively (see certain stockbrokers ) . What the movie and book industries do is some very creative costing, usually to the point that even they don't know if they make a profit on an item until either (a) they go broke or (b) they suddenly find themselves with a whopping great tax bill. Many years ago I did work for a publishing company in England. It was fun but I was appalled at how they ran their business, it was like living in a Tom Holt novel. (Or maybe Tome Holt worked there as well and got his ideas from the experience!) Perhaps it really was run by goblins.
CazMar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 06:48 PM   #5
SensualPoet
Wizard
SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
SensualPoet's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,302
Karma: 2607151
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo
The (freelance) author writes about technology from an Apple perspective as a living. He doesn't demonstrate any depth of knowledge of publishing and actually has nothing specific to say in his short article. I'd be inclined not to draw any conclusion whatsoever from this space filler.
SensualPoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 12-10-2010, 06:53 PM   #6
abookreader
Wizard
abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
abookreader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,516
Karma: 2567610
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD
Ah, I fondly remember the days when I used to turn the monthly financial statements into the company President and I'd get them back with a post-it note: "We need to make more money than this."

But in this case, I'm sure they'll find a way to blame Amazon and come up with some crazy scheme where they raise prices another $2 but still make less money per book than what they were before.

Then they'll dump another 523 authors from their lists and get James Patterson to write another 6 books a month to replace them.

Really in the end that's their final goal. We all read 6 James Patterson novels every month and we pay $20 each for them.
abookreader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 07:08 PM   #7
CleverClothe
Guru
CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CleverClothe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 618
Karma: 493394
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Device: iRex iLiad, Onyx Boox 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
The (freelance) author writes about technology from an Apple perspective as a living. He doesn't demonstrate any depth of knowledge of publishing and actually has nothing specific to say in his short article. I'd be inclined not to draw any conclusion whatsoever from this space filler.
Are you sure you clicked on the right link? The link in the OP goes to an article talking about the Publisher's Weekly survey. I see no insider knowledge, just publicly available data and some personal experience.
CleverClothe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 07:49 PM   #8
GA Russell
Montreal wins Grey Cup!
GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
GA Russell's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,580
Karma: 31484197
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite
What is he referring to when he speaks of "trade publishers" as opposed to publishers in general?
GA Russell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 08:22 PM   #9
SensualPoet
Wizard
SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
SensualPoet's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,302
Karma: 2607151
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverClothe View Post
Are you sure you clicked on the right link? The link in the OP goes to an article talking about the Publisher's Weekly survey. I see no insider knowledge, just publicly available data and some personal experience.
I clicked on the link to the two page article by Ryan Faas and I said nothing about insider knowledge. In fact, that's the problem: handsome Mr Faas has no (obvious) special background or insight into the publishing industry.

The American Publishing Association reports US publishers, as a whole, are reporting 9% of ALL revenues -- trade, paper, hardcover, children's, romance, mass, texts -- are from ebooks in 2010. Those revenues are "gravy" in the sense that they incur only author royalties as incremental per sale costs and they come without any delayed costs (like returns).

Mr Faas asks the question: "Ebooks are hot, but are publishers making money on them?" but doesn't bother to address the question in his "article" other than "many publishers simply haven't been able to make accurate calculations". So ... are they making money, or not? It's a fluff piece that says nothing in particular.
SensualPoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 03:15 AM   #10
starrigger
Jeffrey A. Carver
starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
starrigger's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,355
Karma: 1107383
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Device: Lenovo Yoga Tab Plus, Droid phone, Nook HD+
Quote:
Originally Posted by GA Russell View Post
What is he referring to when he speaks of "trade publishers" as opposed to publishers in general?
Trade publishers put out fiction, nonfiction, etc. As distinct from textbook publishers, or reference book publishers. A standard bit of jargon.
starrigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 11:18 AM   #11
DMcCunney
New York Editor
DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DMcCunney's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,384
Karma: 16540415
Join Date: Aug 2007
Device: PalmTX, Pocket eDGe, Alcatel Fierce 4, RCA Viking Pro 10, Nexus 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by demingite View Post
or lack thereof:

http://www.itworld.com/tech-amp-soci...ech_2010-12-10

No wonder publishing is in trouble - they don't even know if they are making money or not.
The ITWorld article references a Publisher's Weekly writeup. PW in turn is talking about a study conducted by ebook technology and service vendor Aptara.

I'm reading the original Aptara study now. I don't think things are quite as simple as the ITWorld article implies. But yes, publishing is still wrapping itself around ebooks, with lots of questions and confusion. I'm not at all surprised if some are still figuring out what their costs are and will be. ("Will be", because to really do it right, you want to start with well formed XML, but the tools to do that are not widespread in publishing. There will be some fairly significant investment required.)
______
Dennis
DMcCunney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 11:35 AM   #12
DMcCunney
New York Editor
DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DMcCunney ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DMcCunney's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,384
Karma: 16540415
Join Date: Aug 2007
Device: PalmTX, Pocket eDGe, Alcatel Fierce 4, RCA Viking Pro 10, Nexus 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
The American Publishing Association reports US publishers, as a whole, are reporting 9% of ALL revenues -- trade, paper, hardcover, children's, romance, mass, texts -- are from ebooks in 2010. Those revenues are "gravy" in the sense that they incur only author royalties as incremental per sale costs and they come without any delayed costs (like returns).
I believe you mean the Association of American Publishers.

Their 2009 estimated sales by category had ebooks generating $313 million in revenue (up 177% from 2008), out of not quite $24 billion in total book sales (which were off 1.8% from 2008.)

Their summary report for 2009 is here: http://www.publishers.org/main/Indus...12009Final.pdf.
______
Dennis
DMcCunney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 12:12 PM   #13
GA Russell
Montreal wins Grey Cup!
GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
GA Russell's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,580
Karma: 31484197
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite
Quote:
Originally Posted by starrigger View Post
Trade publishers put out fiction, nonfiction, etc. As distinct from textbook publishers, or reference book publishers. A standard bit of jargon.
Thanks Jeffrey!
GA Russell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 04:08 PM   #14
saoir
Groupie
saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.saoir ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
saoir's Avatar
 
Posts: 188
Karma: 2088290
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
We cannot know how much or how little profits are being made because,like the Music industry, the Publishing industry is highly manipulative about their sales, earnings and profits.
They are also hamstrung by several factors. Firstly they failed grossly to prepare for the transition to electronic devices and are having to incur much greater restructuring costs than they would have had they prepared as they were advised by anyone with a brain.
Secondly they are hamstrung by an old fashioned and outdated pricing system that totally lacks a wholesale - retail pricing structure.This results in a constant state of uncertainty of income and profit calculations.
There is on thing we do know for sure though. That is that the widespread claims by the Publishers of enormous costs in creating eBooks are totally and evidently false. The credibility of the industry is at basement level when they repeatedly issue transparently comical woe-is-me claims.
saoir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010, 05:50 PM   #15
CazMar
Book Geek
CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.CazMar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 596
Karma: 1499085
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Device: Kobo Touch, Asus MemPad 7" tablet, Nexus 5, Asus 10" tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by saoir View Post
.........
There is on thing we do know for sure though. That is that the widespread claims by the Publishers of enormous costs in creating eBooks are totally and evidently false. The credibility of the industry is at basement level when they repeatedly issue transparently comical woe-is-me claims.
With 10% unemployment in the USA (and probably almost as bad in the UK) you would think finding a few tech-savvy people to do the conversion to ebooks would be easy and reasonable cheap. You don't need a degree in computer science to do the job, it's not that technical. As most modern books would be electronically typeset these days they should have the raw data on file and anyone who can use HTML should be able to convert to EPUB or produce a PDF file.
CazMar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Amazon ups profits to indie authors kindlekitten Amazon Kindle 3 07-03-2010 07:35 PM
I should be getting a % of Sony's profits! Stacey34 Sony Reader 12 02-24-2010 07:16 AM
Interesting article on publisher's profits on eBooks chaznsc News 10 07-16-2009 12:09 AM
Neil Gaiman says: Free availability of ebook profits sales of pbook! Trenien News 6 07-13-2008 03:59 PM
eBook Article in Make Magazine Brian Lounge 2 05-19-2005 06:07 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:08 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.