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Old 06-03-2012, 02:25 PM   #181
Kirtai
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I don't see him offering any actual evidence of this--he falls back on the "why would people buy a car when they could steal one for free" metaphor and ignores the most profitable denial of that claim: the bottled water industry.
I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to the absolute shitstorm that will result from 3D printers becoming mainstream, and you can download a car (or at least the plans to print one). It'll make the current copyright fuss pale into insignificance
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People do, indeed, buy things they can easily get for free--if the purchases are convenient and inexpensive enough.
This, I think, is the real solution. There's far too much faffing around with buying almost anything digital.
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I notice he doesn't actually say *how* the internet can be regulated.
Magic digital pixies probably. I've noticed that the people all for total internet regulation don't actually have a clue what's involved.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:06 PM   #182
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Australia had already been worked over by the AUSFTA so probably figured they didn't have much to lose anyway. On the other hand the EU negotiator resigned in protest, his replacement has recommended that it be rejected by the EU Parliament, and at the moment it looks very likely that it will be, which will effectively kill it entirely as no other country has yet ratified it.
What I get out of this is that the political process worked, or is working, albeit not perfectly, so great.

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P.S. I have voted in every election that I have ever been eligible to do so and I am not, and never will be, your "mate".

I can live with that.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:40 PM   #183
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What I get out of this is that the political process worked, or is working, albeit not perfectly, so great.



I can live with that.
Sort of like signing a contract with a gun to your head. See - negotiation works!

(Austrailia was required to change it's copyright law length in order to get a free trade agreement. The US made it non-negotiable. No copyright length change (from Life + 50 to Life + 70) no other trade changes at all...So much for you give something, we give something...)
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:03 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Kirtai View Post
I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to the absolute shitstorm that will result from 3D printers becoming mainstream, and you can download a car (or at least the plans to print one). It'll make the current copyright fuss pale into insignificance
It'll be a long, long time, if ever, before you can download & print a car. (Materials alone would be a problem.)

The revolution and drama will be about children's toys and "marital aids."

Slightly-modified knockoffs of every trademarked character will appear--and this being the internet, parody stories and artwork of them will also appear so that it's obvious the use isn't infringement. Mattel and Hasbro will go crazy trying to sue people.

And on the other side of things, conservative parents' groups will freak out that print-file hosting sites have "adult content" and their kids could just download and print out objects of obviously erotic purpose. Site owners will argue, would you rather they got a good one from us, or a badly-made one--the kind with sharp edges or angles that can cause damage--from their friends?
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:29 PM   #185
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I found another example of someone who practically dislikes libraries MORE than pirates!
...
That is a good example.

There seem to be at least two authors named Avner Mandelman. I somehow suspect that I should be peeved at the novelist, but it could be he's innocent, and the economically errant post was written by the stock picker. Both have Overdrive availability
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:37 PM   #186
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don't see him offering any actual evidence of this--he falls back on the "why would people buy a car when they could steal one for free" metaphor and ignores the most profitable denial of that claim: the bottled water industry. People do, indeed, buy things they can easily get for free--if the purchases are convenient and inexpensive enough.

Basic common sense would tell you that there's no way people will pay as much for distilled water as they will for a carbonated soda... but common sense is wrong.
Well, if common sense tells you that the poster is right, then common sense also tells you that bottled water is the exception that proves(tests) the rule-if the bottled water example is relevant at all.
The Cynical Musician ( who is also an economist) explains why pirates crowd out legit business :

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Virtually the only disadvantage the pirates have is that they are operating illegally and even that isn’t a very apparent disadvantage. It becomes disadvantageous if there’s a serious risk of legal consequences to the pirate or if the shady nature of its operations puts off a sizeable portion of the consumer base. Right now, piracy doesn’t carry much of a social stigma and law-enforcement against it is rather ineffective.

The still-resounding mantra about how best to compete with pirates has been for the legitimate suppliers to come up with new, innovative business models, but the flaw in this line of argument should be perfectly visible from what you have just read – it assumes that the legitimate suppliers can somehow come up with a business model that would give them an advantage over the pirates.

I’m sorry to say it, but that is bunk. The best that the legitimate suppliers can come up with is to match the pirates’ offer some of the time – for the reasons outlined above. The pirates will always have lower costs and will always be exempt from some of the restrictions that the legitimate suppliers have. On the other hand, any business model, product or service that the legal suppliers can come up with can be matched and bettered by the pirates, for exactly the same reasons.
LINK

[QUOTE]There is something in the *culture* of the internet that makes them incompatible, and I don't just mean in the geeky hacker technophile corners of the web[/QUOTE ]

I understand the concept that the Internet was originally a sort of techie libertarian utopia where people worked on trust, not law, etc. Times have changed. The Internet has become a public square and a place of commerce. That means it has to become a place under the rule of law. There is no reason why it can't also be a place where free speech and privacy rights are protected. It does mean that you have to be a citizen and participate in the democratic process, if you are concerned.

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notice he doesn't actually say *how* the internet can be regulated. He mentions traffic regulations on physical highways--but we know how those are done: police are assigned to drive around the area and pull over anyone they think looks dangerous, as defined by law. If there are too many dangerous people to pull over at once, police can take license plate numbers and go after them later. If the potentially-dangerous people think they were misidentified or weren't actually breaking the law, they can say so in court.
This is not a remotely accurate description of how police are supposed to work, but let that pass. The ranter doesn't need to set out a detailed general scheme of how to regulate the Internet. His ire is leveled at folks (like you) who seem perfectly OK with the massive violation of the rights of copyright holders but is overly concerned with the (so far imaginary) violation of the rights of those who are blatantly ripping off artists.
The Trichordist is calling simply for the law to be enforced. Just about everything you speculate about sounds like sophistical hypotheticals with no basis in reality. The reality is the mass violation of artist rights. Focus on what's really happening, not what MAY happen.

Last edited by stonetools; 06-03-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:33 PM   #187
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The Trichordist is calling simply for the law to be enforced. Just about everything you speculate about sounds like sophistical hypotheticals with no basis in reality. The reality is the mass violation of artist rights. Focus on what's really happening, not what MAY happen.
He's calling for the law to be *expanded,* not enforced. It is being enforced.

It's failing to be effective, because the foundations of the law included the idea that copies would be difficult to make, and therefore minimal resources could be expended to stop infringement; only large-scale commercial infringements would have any effect on the financial viability of legit copies.

This is no longer the case. (1) Small infringements, of the type that used to be waved off, are having an effect, because they are widespread and simple enough. (Example: a hundred years ago, nobody cared if someone hand-wrote or typed a copy of a book onto individual sheets of paper, and mailed a chapter at a time to their brother overseas at war.)

(2) Enforcements attempted against small infringements have the problem of, legally, being equally viable against things that are fair use. The line between "fair use" and "infringement" on an individual, noncommercial scale, or even small commercial scale, has never been defined.

Example: Playing music at a house party with a $2 head charge. Making a mix tape. Photocopying the charts from an RPG manual each player has a set. Copying a page of artwork from a children's book to use as a cross-stitch pattern to make a gift. Hand-calligraphed poetry.

If you've got a way to categorically define "infringement" so that it excludes these, I'd love to hear it. If you think some of these are infringement--should be paying money to the rights holders--that's exactly the curtailment of creativity that people are worried about.

It's not that most of the sensible crowd (and I grant, there's plenty of idiots) really believes that mass file-sharing is good for artists, although there's substantial debate about how much harm it causes. (Obviously, it's good for *some* artists. Obviously, others are gaining nothing at all from it.) We *can* agree that some of it is harmful. We *can't* agree on how harmful, and what measures are reasonable to take to stop that harm. We can't even agree on who should be making those decisions.

We can hopefully agree that it shouldn't be rights-holders alone; almost every author or musician who ever lived thought they weren't being paid enough. That leaves at least two other factions who could be involved in the decision: the public, who has an interest in works being available (which means both "at reasonable prices" and "with compensation enough that the artist keeps creating"), and the government, who has the task of enforcing whatever rules are decided on.

The gov't seems to have mostly decided that the rights-holders can declare how much they *should* be making, and if they're not making that, piracy must be to blame. They insist that countermeasures should be based on the amount of money they think their efforts are worth, rather than based on actual market analysis.

In response, a lot of the public has decided, "to hell with that! They can take what I'm willing to pay... or nothing." To members of the (consumer) public, it doesn't matter how many works have been created if those works are outside their price range. Whether artists go broke (and stop producing) because (A) they overpriced their works, can't find a market, and give up, or because (B) their works were shared so much they can't sell them at all, is irrelevant to the public: either way, no new works. In Plan B, at least the public gets access to existing works.

This is not the only way of perceiving the situation, but it is a valid one--and it's one that needs to be taken into consideration when devising solutions. Why should the public go along with a plan to price works out of their reach? So that someone else who has more money can enjoy them?
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:07 PM   #188
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It'll be a long, long time, if ever, before you can download & print a car. (Materials alone would be a problem.)
Never mind the car, just print me out a bike made from easily obtainable cellulose.
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