DRM = BAD - Page 2

bøø · 11-13-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andym

Can you substantiate this? Amazon.com don't sell Mobipocket books from their site (you have to go to mobipocket). Their website says that any etexts you buy from them will be kept indefinitely.

Why let the facts get in the way of a (not very) good argument?

Happened to me a couple of year ago, before I knew about the whole DRM thing (silly me

) - I changed computers, wanted to read my legally purchased ebooks, but could't open them because of DRM. I contacted Amazon.com and got the message: "sorry, we don't sell ebooks anymore, can't help you".

Liviu_5 · 11-13-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bøø

Happened to me a couple of year ago, before I knew about the whole DRM thing (silly me

) - I changed computers, wanted to read my legally purchased ebooks, but could't open them because of DRM. I contacted Amazon.com and got the message: "sorry, we don't sell ebooks anymore, can't help you".

Similar experience. Taught me never to buy drm'ed books that are not convertible. Good lesson at a cheap price.

allen.gotwald · 11-19-2007, 08:30 PM

Here's the problem: Copyright laws. If I buy a book, at best I can hand the book to a friend and say "read this". No big deal. With e-text, I can buy one copy of a text and then email it such that eventually thousands receive it. It's like Napster a few years ago only for literature. I wouldn't mind if each purchase has a tag/license that maps the serial number to the purchaser to ensure copyright protection. But then what happens if I buy a new reader in a few years and none of my new e-text transfer because they're licensed to a different device. It's a conundrum. So, Sony has BBeB and Kindle has it's restriction. I have the SONY PRS-505 and so far have built up 127 e-books between the Sony 100 free books offer, a couple purchases, the Mobile Read site and Gutenberg. I don't like the DRM restrictions because the SONY bookstore is limited (not bad, but not great). But I understand the restriction. The only change I'd like to see for the PRS-505 is if SONY would provide mobipocket format allowance.

Barcey · 11-19-2007, 09:20 PM

It's mainly about fear uncertainty and doubt (FUD) and that's what the companies that are selling DRM technology are counting on. Do you know thousand of people that you would trust emailing a copyright book to? No DRM technology will protect copying from happening it will just make it more difficult for the casual copying to happen. With DRM you can no longer give a copy to your friend when you're done reading the book and in five years the DRM technology might not be around any more so you can't read the book you legally purchased. If that's not important to you then DRM doesn't matter.

I compare it to the newspaper boxes that they used to have on the streets. Most of them you would put in your quarter and you could take one paper or you could take a whole stack of papers and give them to your friends. Most people would only take one. Sure some people would take the whole stack but the loss to the newspaper companies was less then paying for the paperboy to stand at the street corner.

The FUD is that someone will steal all the newspapers and put you out of business but the reality is the people who would do that can break the DRM anyway. If you can read the book it can be copied.

JSWolf · 11-29-2007, 10:38 AM

The people that pirate the ebooks already have the existing tools to remove/crack the DRM. So they can then distribute the ebooks. The regular folks who are not into pirating ebooks are the ones who will get screwed over. They will be stuck with DRM and limited device computability with no way to convert the content to some other format should they need to. Way to go. The people the industry are trying to stop are the ones who are unstoppable. The ones who don't need to be stopped are treated like a criminal. Makes a lot of nonsense to me.

schmidt349 · 12-03-2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Here's the problem: Copyright laws. If I buy a book, at best I can hand the book to a friend and say "read this". No big deal. With e-text, I can buy one copy of a text and then email it such that eventually thousands receive it. It's like Napster a few years ago only for literature.

Did you know that the concept of copyright didn't exist until the time of Queen Anne in England and literature seems to have got along just fine without it? In the age of manuscripts you just commissioned a copy of a book that either you possessed or someone else was willing to let you borrow. You didn't have to write to the author and ask permission.

Good God, imagine where we'd be now if the ancients had DRMed all their text.

HarryT · 12-04-2007, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidt349

Did you know that the concept of copyright didn't exist until the time of Queen Anne in England and literature seems to have got along just fine without it? In the age of manuscripts you just commissioned a copy of a book that either you possessed or someone else was willing to let you borrow. You didn't have to write to the author and ask permission.

Good God, imagine where we'd be now if the ancients had DRMed all their text.

Copyright law became necessary when people started making a living from writing - this only became practical following the invention of the printing press. In Shakespeare's time, for example, copyright court cases were an extremely common occurence; far more so than today.

Sparrow · 12-04-2007, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

In Shakespeare's time, for example, copyright court cases were an extremely common occurence; far more so than today.

Didn't Shakespeare borrow heavily from existing sources (e.g. Holinshed's Chronicles)?
If he'd been constrained by the IPR rules we have today, I wonder if he'd have been able to produce the masterpieces we enjoy today

HarryT · 12-04-2007, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Didn't Shakespeare borrow heavily from existing sources (e.g. Holinshed's Chronicles)?
If he'd been constrained by the IPR rules we have today, I wonder if he'd have been able to produce the masterpieces we enjoy today

Shakespeare didn't "make up" any of his stories - they all come from other sources. As you say, his history plays are largely based on Holinshed, his Roman plays on North's translation of Plutarch's "Lives", etc. He didn't copy stuff verbatim, though, he just used the stories. No problem with doing that even today. Eg Phillip Pullman's "Dark Materials" trilogy is based on Milton's "Paradise Lost".

ashalan · 12-04-2007, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Didn't Shakespeare borrow heavily from existing sources (e.g. Holinshed's Chronicles)?

Or as Robert Greene 1592 wrote: ""Yes, trust them not, for there is an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers, that, with his Tygers heart wrapt in a Players hide, supposes he is as well able to bumbast out a blanke verse as the best of you; and being an absolute Johannes Factotum, is in his owne conceit the onely Shake-scene in a countrie."

Sparrow · 12-04-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Shakespeare didn't "make up" any of his stories - they all come from other sources. As you say, his history plays are largely based on Holinshed, his Roman plays on North's translation of Plutarch's "Lives", etc. He didn't copy stuff verbatim, though, he just used the stories. No problem with doing that even today. Eg Phillip Pullman's "Dark Materials" trilogy is based on Milton's "Paradise Lost".

Isn't it plagiarism?
I don't think Shakespeare could get away with today if the source was still in copyright.

HarryT · 12-04-2007, 04:51 AM

No. You could go out and buy a modern English history book and write a play based on the "stories" in it. They are about real people and events, and you can't copyright something like that. As long as you just use the history book as your source of information, and don't copy the words verbatim, you'll be fine. You're just using it as a reference book - all authors do that.

Sparrow · 12-04-2007, 05:15 AM

There was the 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail' v 'Da Vinci Code' case which revolved around whether ideas rather than text was plagiarised, iirc.

HarryT · 12-04-2007, 05:24 AM

I believe that was based on the accusation that "Da Vinci" was a "derivative work" from HBHG. The accusation was judged to be unfounded. That's the same idea that prevents you from writing your own "Harry Potter" book, for example - things like characters created by an author are "owned" by them and can't be used without permission. "Real life" characters and events aren't covered by that.

Sparrow · 12-04-2007, 05:39 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4886234.stm
Both books explore the theory that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a child and the bloodline survives to this day.

Mr Baigent and Mr Leigh argued that Dan Brown copied their book's "central theme".

But the judge, Mr Justice Peter Smith, said The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail did not have a central theme in the way its authors suggested.

11-19-2007, 08:30 PM	#18
allen.gotwald Advocate Posts: 44 Karma: 34094 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ohio Device: SONY PRS-505 and Nook Color	A different angle on DRM Here's the problem: Copyright laws. If I buy a book, at best I can hand the book to a friend and say "read this". No big deal. With e-text, I can buy one copy of a text and then email it such that eventually thousands receive it. It's like Napster a few years ago only for literature. I wouldn't mind if each purchase has a tag/license that maps the serial number to the purchaser to ensure copyright protection. But then what happens if I buy a new reader in a few years and none of my new e-text transfer because they're licensed to a different device. It's a conundrum. So, Sony has BBeB and Kindle has it's restriction. I have the SONY PRS-505 and so far have built up 127 e-books between the Sony 100 free books offer, a couple purchases, the Mobile Read site and Gutenberg. I don't like the DRM restrictions because the SONY bookstore is limited (not bad, but not great). But I understand the restriction. The only change I'd like to see for the PRS-505 is if SONY would provide mobipocket format allowance.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Found another DRM vs no DRM picture on the Net	Krystian Galaj	News	29	03-18-2010 06:25 AM
ShineBook Mobile eBook Reader announced in Germany, reads both DRM-prc + DRM-ePub ...	K-Thom	News	11	12-12-2009 06:50 AM
So, what's so bad about DRM, anyway?	vivaldirules	Lounge	15	09-28-2008 08:30 PM
bad card, or bad card reader, or... ?	zelda_pinwheel	Fictionwise eBookwise	5	02-08-2008 10:32 AM

11-19-2007, 09:20 PM	#19
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	It's mainly about fear uncertainty and doubt (FUD) and that's what the companies that are selling DRM technology are counting on. Do you know thousand of people that you would trust emailing a copyright book to? No DRM technology will protect copying from happening it will just make it more difficult for the casual copying to happen. With DRM you can no longer give a copy to your friend when you're done reading the book and in five years the DRM technology might not be around any more so you can't read the book you legally purchased. If that's not important to you then DRM doesn't matter. I compare it to the newspaper boxes that they used to have on the streets. Most of them you would put in your quarter and you could take one paper or you could take a whole stack of papers and give them to your friends. Most people would only take one. Sure some people would take the whole stack but the loss to the newspaper companies was less then paying for the paperboy to stand at the street corner. The FUD is that someone will steal all the newspapers and put you out of business but the reality is the people who would do that can break the DRM anyway. If you can read the book it can be copied.

11-29-2007, 10:38 AM	#20
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,983 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The people that pirate the ebooks already have the existing tools to remove/crack the DRM. So they can then distribute the ebooks. The regular folks who are not into pirating ebooks are the ones who will get screwed over. They will be stuck with DRM and limited device computability with no way to convert the content to some other format should they need to. Way to go. The people the industry are trying to stop are the ones who are unstoppable. The ones who don't need to be stopped are treated like a criminal. Makes a lot of nonsense to me.

12-04-2007, 04:51 AM	#27
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	No. You could go out and buy a modern English history book and write a play based on the "stories" in it. They are about real people and events, and you can't copyright something like that. As long as you just use the history book as your source of information, and don't copy the words verbatim, you'll be fine. You're just using it as a reference book - all authors do that.

12-04-2007, 05:15 AM	#28
Sparrow Wizard Posts: 4,395 Karma: 1358132 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3	There was the 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail' v 'Da Vinci Code' case which revolved around whether ideas rather than text was plagiarised, iirc.

12-04-2007, 05:24 AM	#29
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I believe that was based on the accusation that "Da Vinci" was a "derivative work" from HBHG. The accusation was judged to be unfounded. That's the same idea that prevents you from writing your own "Harry Potter" book, for example - things like characters created by an author are "owned" by them and can't be used without permission. "Real life" characters and events aren't covered by that.

12-04-2007, 05:39 AM	#30
Sparrow Wizard Posts: 4,395 Karma: 1358132 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3	http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4886234.stm Both books explore the theory that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a child and the bloodline survives to this day. Mr Baigent and Mr Leigh argued that Dan Brown copied their book's "central theme". But the judge, Mr Justice Peter Smith, said The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail did not have a central theme in the way its authors suggested.

Advert

Advert