A Third issue for thoughful debate - proprietary book stores

jbcohen · 01-18-2011, 08:01 AM

There are a few book stores that sell their books in proprietary formats and if they do sell them in an industry standard format they make it hard for their customers to make use of the products that they bought from them, such as Amazon, Barns and Nobles and Sony. I would think that they would want to sell to the widest number of customers possible regardless of the reader that the customer chose. So why do they include encryption in their products that will allow their products to be read only by their readers? I would think that this would be contrary to their best interests.

I think that Kobo has the issue right they want to sell and quite frankly could care less what ereader you have, probably would prefer if I had their reader, but are putting more emphasis on where the long term profits are.

GeoffC · 01-18-2011, 08:18 AM

A question that has been asked many times before - Who knows how their minds work - but 'locking' customers into their product/shop seems to be working for them - or else they would not be doing it

.

Not all customer will be 'savvy'.

sourcejedi · 01-18-2011, 08:38 AM

I don't think of those as ebook stores. I think of them as e-reader stores.

I'd say they're just not interested in competing in that market; they feel they have a large enough "captive" market for the moment. Amazon in particular I suspect are happy with their current market share & rate of growth.

jbcohen · 01-18-2011, 08:43 AM

But wouldn't be in there best interests to reach the largest possible number of customers possible? I would think that even with my Libra Pro they would still want to sell me ebooks. Being proprietary is limiting the customer base, I would think that Amazon, for example, would preferr to have people with Sony readers, Kobo readers and Libra Pros and what ever else there is out there buying from them? Grab for the entire market.

david_e · 01-18-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

So why do they include encryption in their products that will allow their products to be read only by their readers?

Because they want their product to be read only by the purchaser.

elcreative · 01-18-2011, 08:55 AM

One of the simplest reasons concerns support... if they only provide books for their platform then it's your problem if something goes wrong when you try another platform... proprietary simplifies support, provide a cheat sheet for tier 1 support staff, some training for tier 2 and know your product at tier 3 (if they use this option) but only for one product range...

rhadin · 01-18-2011, 08:57 AM

Sony uses exactly the same DRM scheme as Kobo. Any book bought at Sony can be read on most dedicated devices without stripping or conversion, the notable exception being the Kindle.

HarryT · 01-18-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

There are a few book stores that sell their books in proprietary formats and if they do sell them in an industry standard format they make it hard for their customers to make use of the products that they bought from them, such as Amazon, Barns and Nobles and Sony. I would think that they would want to sell to the widest number of customers possible regardless of the reader that the customer chose. So why do they include encryption in their products that will allow their products to be read only by their readers? I would think that this would be contrary to their best interests.

ADE books are just as proprietary as Mobipocket books or Amazon books. They can only be read on devices with ADE firmware, and that's absolutely proprietary to Adobe.

Quote:

I think that Kobo has the issue right they want to sell and quite frankly could care less what ereader you have, probably would prefer if I had their reader, but are putting more emphasis on where the long term profits are.

I think you mean that Kobo "couldn't care less", rather than "could care less". "Could care less" doesn't make sense.

OtterBooks · 01-18-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

So why do they include encryption in their products that will allow their products to be read only by their readers? I would think that this would be contrary to their best interests.

I think it's because they want to sell their ereaders. It may be changing, but as I understand it the primary source of revenue for those sellers is the hardware, not the ebooks. I read in Bloomberg that the Kindle 3 is sold at 48% profit. That's a fairly respectable margin, and not the sort associated with content-driven devices which are often sold at single digit profit margins or even a loss.

Before I dwell on this further, I read that at some point Amazon was taking a loss on ebooks, at least many of them. They would sell under wholesale to keep prices at a level that made their device more attractive. The article I read was almost a year old. Is this still the case? If not, to what extent has it changed? If anyone knows.

pdurrant · 01-18-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I think you mean that Kobo "couldn't care less", rather than "could care less". "Could care less" doesn't make sense.

David Mitchell's Soap Box.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...0/language-usa

HarryT · 01-18-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

David Mitchell's Soap Box.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...0/language-usa

LOL

. Thanks, Paul - that's brilliant!

elemenoP · 01-18-2011, 12:24 PM

I have said on another thread that I think dedicated ereaders will eventually die and there will only be tablets. This will make the format wars less of a problem: right now, if you have an ipad, you can load the kindle app to read kindle books, and the nook app to read nookbooks. So I think they will all continue with their proprietary formats.

eP

mr ploppy · 01-18-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

But wouldn't be in there best interests to reach the largest possible number of customers possible? I would think that even with my Libra Pro they would still want to sell me ebooks. Being proprietary is limiting the customer base, I would think that Amazon, for example, would preferr to have people with Sony readers, Kobo readers and Libra Pros and what ever else there is out there buying from them? Grab for the entire market.

It would cannibalise sales. People with Kindles would buy ebooks from Sony and vice versa. If that happened on a mass scale it would create competition, and competition always drives down prices. If you lock people to a specific device using a specific site to buy ebooks for it, you maximise your profits.

The ultimate desire is to become the dominant device, that way you control the market. If people were free to buy their content from wherever they want, which device you owned would become irrelevant and dominance would become impossible.

edlauzon · 01-18-2011, 03:08 PM

I think that we are starting to move away from a focus on the device to a focus on the library. Once Sony rolls out its apps, all of the big bookstores will have applications which work across multiple devices. Tablet, pc, and mac users can patronize multiple bookstores.

Each of the bookstores is trying to get their hold on the client by making it easier for the client to use the single store across the devices, through having things such as on-line copies which synchronize so that they maintain which page you are at across devices, and making it inconvenient (I'm not saying impossible) to side-load books purchased from other stores.

Clients such as us patrons of these forums find it easy to do such things as maintaining our own libraries using calibre. I expect that for the vast majority of clients, they will stay clients of the first on-line bookstore which grabs them. They simply don't want the inconvenience of having to use different applications to access their libraries.

teadonkey · 01-18-2011, 09:12 PM

I thought I'd tell y'all my opinion since I am a Kindle owner and I exclusively buy books from Amazon - save for one download from Gutenburg, which I might continue to do. But that's not BUYING.

The reason why I don't care that I'm locked into the Kindle store when it comes to BUYING books is because I like what the Amazon store has to offer, and the prices that it offers at. Before I got a Kindle, I was already an Amazon customer for everything from books to tea to purses. When I was looking to get an eReader, I already had Amazon on my mind since I already bought almost all of my books from them. I don't know if you've noticed, but when it comes to paperback, you can't beat Amazon in the US. Unless you can find the book used, of course.

I also, though, did a lot of comparing. I made a list in Excel of all the books I was currently thinking of buying at some point in the future. I put the eBook price for every book for three different stores, and Amazon won. For the books I wanted, they had the most of them in eformat and at the lowest price. So... I don't need another store. That's why I don't want one, and that's why it doesn't matter to me. I'm sure there are a lot of other customers who think the same way I do, and that's probably why Amazon is selling ebooks and Kindles so well.

01-18-2011, 08:01 AM	#1
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,025 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Piper College Device: Samsung A21	A Third issue for thoughful debate - proprietary book stores There are a few book stores that sell their books in proprietary formats and if they do sell them in an industry standard format they make it hard for their customers to make use of the products that they bought from them, such as Amazon, Barns and Nobles and Sony. I would think that they would want to sell to the widest number of customers possible regardless of the reader that the customer chose. So why do they include encryption in their products that will allow their products to be read only by their readers? I would think that this would be contrary to their best interests. I think that Kobo has the issue right they want to sell and quite frankly could care less what ereader you have, probably would prefer if I had their reader, but are putting more emphasis on where the long term profits are.

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01-18-2011, 08:18 AM	#2
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	A question that has been asked many times before - Who knows how their minds work - but 'locking' customers into their product/shop seems to be working for them - or else they would not be doing it . Not all customer will be 'savvy'.

01-18-2011, 08:38 AM	#3
sourcejedi Groupie Posts: 155 Karma: 200000 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Britania Device: Android	I don't think of those as ebook stores. I think of them as e-reader stores. I'd say they're just not interested in competing in that market; they feel they have a large enough "captive" market for the moment. Amazon in particular I suspect are happy with their current market share & rate of growth.

01-18-2011, 08:43 AM	#4
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,025 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Piper College Device: Samsung A21	But wouldn't be in there best interests to reach the largest possible number of customers possible? I would think that even with my Libra Pro they would still want to sell me ebooks. Being proprietary is limiting the customer base, I would think that Amazon, for example, would preferr to have people with Sony readers, Kobo readers and Libra Pros and what ever else there is out there buying from them? Grab for the entire market.

01-18-2011, 08:55 AM	#6
elcreative Wizard Posts: 2,888 Karma: 5875940 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: PRS505, 600, 350, 650, Nexus 7, Note III, iPad 4 etc	One of the simplest reasons concerns support... if they only provide books for their platform then it's your problem if something goes wrong when you try another platform... proprietary simplifies support, provide a cheat sheet for tier 1 support staff, some training for tier 2 and know your product at tier 3 (if they use this option) but only for one product range...

01-18-2011, 08:57 AM	#7
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	Sony uses exactly the same DRM scheme as Kobo. Any book bought at Sony can be read on most dedicated devices without stripping or conversion, the notable exception being the Kindle.

01-18-2011, 12:24 PM	#12
elemenoP Wizard Posts: 1,717 Karma: 3790058 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NYC Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Sony 650	I have said on another thread that I think dedicated ereaders will eventually die and there will only be tablets. This will make the format wars less of a problem: right now, if you have an ipad, you can load the kindle app to read kindle books, and the nook app to read nookbooks. So I think they will all continue with their proprietary formats. eP

01-18-2011, 03:08 PM	#14
edlauzon Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 534 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: kobo	I think that we are starting to move away from a focus on the device to a focus on the library. Once Sony rolls out its apps, all of the big bookstores will have applications which work across multiple devices. Tablet, pc, and mac users can patronize multiple bookstores. Each of the bookstores is trying to get their hold on the client by making it easier for the client to use the single store across the devices, through having things such as on-line copies which synchronize so that they maintain which page you are at across devices, and making it inconvenient (I'm not saying impossible) to side-load books purchased from other stores. Clients such as us patrons of these forums find it easy to do such things as maintaining our own libraries using calibre. I expect that for the vast majority of clients, they will stay clients of the first on-line bookstore which grabs them. They simply don't want the inconvenience of having to use different applications to access their libraries.

01-18-2011, 09:12 PM	#15
teadonkey Zealot Posts: 132 Karma: 2179008 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: Kindle 3 WiFi	I thought I'd tell y'all my opinion since I am a Kindle owner and I exclusively buy books from Amazon - save for one download from Gutenburg, which I might continue to do. But that's not BUYING. The reason why I don't care that I'm locked into the Kindle store when it comes to BUYING books is because I like what the Amazon store has to offer, and the prices that it offers at. Before I got a Kindle, I was already an Amazon customer for everything from books to tea to purses. When I was looking to get an eReader, I already had Amazon on my mind since I already bought almost all of my books from them. I don't know if you've noticed, but when it comes to paperback, you can't beat Amazon in the US. Unless you can find the book used, of course. I also, though, did a lot of comparing. I made a list in Excel of all the books I was currently thinking of buying at some point in the future. I put the eBook price for every book for three different stores, and Amazon won. For the books I wanted, they had the most of them in eformat and at the lowest price. So... I don't need another store. That's why I don't want one, and that's why it doesn't matter to me. I'm sure there are a lot of other customers who think the same way I do, and that's probably why Amazon is selling ebooks and Kindles so well.

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