Adobe ePub DRM cracked?

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm not saying "don't buy eBooks". I'm saying "buy eBooks from those publishers who don't use DRM". If DRM-free sales boom and DRM-encoded sales slump, THAT sends a clear message to publishers.

But how will publishers get that message? Do they really share numbers so one who uses DRM knows how well one who doesn't is doing? Baen's about the biggest publisher I can think of that doesn't use DRM and they aren't that big. Are there any major publishers selling non DRM material? Pan Macmillan doesn't use DRM IIRC, but last I checked they weren't offering much.

All the biggies; Penguin, Harper, Harlequin, Random House, Macmillan, Hachette, etc. use DRM. How is not buying from them going to send any message other than "see ebooks don't sell well after all"? A lot of these publishers already seem unsure or even downright hostile towards ebooks the way it is. Seems to me that not buying will just help give them an excuse to say ebooks aren't really viable yet.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

But how will publishers get that message? Do they really share numbers so one who uses DRM knows how well one who doesn't is doing? Baen's about the biggest publisher I can think of that doesn't use DRM and they aren't that big. Are there any major publishers selling non DRM material? Pan Macmillan doesn't use DRM IIRC, but last I checked they weren't offering much.

All the biggies; Penguin, Harper, Harlequin, Random House, Macmillan, Hachette, etc. use DRM. How is not buying from them going to send any message other than "see ebooks don't sell well after all"? A lot of these publishers already seem unsure or even downright hostile towards ebooks the way it is. Seems to me that not buying will just help give them an excuse to say ebooks aren't really viable yet.

agreed. although i also think that in addition to buying ebooks, we should write to the publishers and tell them we hate drm.

but honestly, in daily life i imagine not many people think of doing that or are motivated to. nonetheless eventually the publishers will come around, i'm sure, and surely faster if they see that ebooks are selling.

[soilwork]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

agreed. although i also think that in addition to buying ebooks, we should write to the publishers and tell them we hate drm.

It is a way but I think economic incentives will drive publishers to drop DRM even if we don't email them. I described this rather briefly in my previous post mainly aimed at HarryT, but I guess he missed my post.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=119

From what I read, adding DRM to each book costs money. As more books are sold, publishers will realize that they are losing money by keeping DRM. They can have more money in their pocket (profit) even if they sell the same number of books (unit sales) by dropping DRM (cost reduction).

For example, let's say it costs 5cents to add DRM to each book. If a certain ebook sells 1 million copies, then publishers are losing money (1 million x 0.05 = $50,000) by keeping DRM. If the ebook sells 10 million copies, they are losing $500,000. As more books are sold, they are losing more money. This will make publishers rethink about keeping DRM especially when they realize that most DRMs are already useless anyway.

So, I will not worry too much about current DRM situation. It is good idea to email publishers but once the market is established, publishers (or at least their accountants) will realize that dropping DRM is more profitable for them even if they do not care about consumers' convenience at all. I think this is what happened to Apple iTunes as well.

[Alisa]

I suspect the per-book cost of DRM is a good deal higher than your hypothetical figure, too. I can't see it being able to sustain companies like Mobipocket at that level. I think you're correct, too, in that the main thing publishers need to realize is that it doesn't prevent piracy. Nothing prevents piracy 100%. The best you can do is encourage people to pay for their content by making it convenient and reasonably priced.

[soilwork]

Originally Posted by Alisa

I suspect the per-book cost of DRM is a good deal higher than your hypothetical figure, too. I can't see it being able to sustain companies like Mobipocket at that level.

If it is the case, publisher are losing more money than in my example!

the main thing publishers need to realize is that it doesn't prevent piracy. Nothing prevents piracy 100%. The best you can do is encourage people to pay for their content by making it convenient and reasonably priced.

Completely agree with you. Pirated versions will be always available whether the books are offered a) only in pbook, b) in ebook with DRM, or c) in ebook without DRM. A certain option will be slightly easier than the others but it does not matter much as we saw from Harry Potter example where its ebook were made from pbook in one day.

Publishers seem to ignore (or do not want to acknowledge) that significant number of people will still buy the content legally to support authors regardless of whether pirated versions are available.

Publishers are better off removing DRM since 1) removing DRM will be more profitable for publishers, 2) consumers will be happier buying DRM-less content, and 3) adding DRM makes little, if any, difference to pirates. It is mystifying that publishers are cling to DRM without apparent benefit, but hopefully they will grow out of FUD sooner than later.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Now that you are mentioning it, it makes me think it could send the complete opposite message. It could make publishers think and argue that now isn't the time for e-books since people are obviously avoiding them.

The ipod had success not despite of piracy but because of it. Now a lot of former pirates buying their music.

The industry can work together with the customers.

[aliencane]

Meanwhile...he has cracked pdf as well as epub. It works, but I try to avoid pdf ebooks.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by soilwork

It is a way but I think economic incentives will drive publishers to drop DRM even if we don't email them. I described this rather briefly in my previous post mainly aimed at HarryT, but I guess he missed my post.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=119

From what I read, adding DRM to each book costs money. As more books are sold, publishers will realize that they are losing money by keeping DRM. They can have more money in their pocket (profit) even if they sell the same number of books (unit sales) by dropping DRM (cost reduction).

For example, let's say it costs 5cents to add DRM to each book. If a certain ebook sells 1 million copies, then publishers are losing money (1 million x 0.05 = $50,000) by keeping DRM. If the ebook sells 10 million copies, they are losing $500,000. As more books are sold, they are losing more money. This will make publishers rethink about keeping DRM especially when they realize that most DRMs are already useless anyway.

So, I will not worry too much about current DRM situation. It is good idea to email publishers but once the market is established, publishers (or at least their accountants) will realize that dropping DRM is more profitable for them even if they do not care about consumers' convenience at all. I think this is what happened to Apple iTunes as well.

Originally Posted by Alisa

I suspect the per-book cost of DRM is a good deal higher than your hypothetical figure, too. I can't see it being able to sustain companies like Mobipocket at that level. I think you're correct, too, in that the main thing publishers need to realize is that it doesn't prevent piracy. Nothing prevents piracy 100%. The best you can do is encourage people to pay for their content by making it convenient and reasonably priced.

i just saw these posts, sorry to reply so late. i agree : the most important message to send publishers is that we want ebooks ! and the only thing that will convince them of that, is if we buy them. but you are right that buying formats depending on the crackability of the drm may help to show them how much we hate drm ; i certainly hope so.

as to cost, i believe it is even more than you think. in various discussions with a publisher recently, i learned that in order to use adobe drm you must first pay adobe 10,000€ PLUS a small fee (0.15€) for each book served with drm ; i don't know the initial cost for mobipocket (if any) but i do know that they charge 10% of the sale price for every drm book served.

i've recently learned that french publishers at least are not at all interested in using drm, overall ; they realise it's a pointless waste of money which only aggravates their legitimate customers. so that is good news. the problem, is that often the authors themselves are in a panic about being pirated (like JK Rowling... and look where that got her).

i don't know how we can convince the authors that drm should be avoided but i think in some cases they may be the ones who are resisting even more than the publishers !

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

the problem, is that often the authors themselves are in a panic about being pirated (like JK Rowling... and look where that got her).

It's funny to that the authors that are most likely to be pirated are the most popular and successful ones. There work is going to be pirated anyway. She already sells millions of books. Is she really worried about lost sales due to piracy?

I would wish as an author to have the popularity of Rowling. Should she feel good about so many people wanting to read her books?

Head | Wall [bang]

BOb

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

It's funny to that the authors that are most likely to be pirated are the most popular and successful ones. There work is going to be pirated anyway. She already sells millions of books. Is she really worried about lost sales due to piracy?

I would wish as an author to have the popularity of Rowling. Should she feel good about so many people wanting to read her books?

Head | Wall [bang]

BOb

i know. and with all the interest lately in viral marketing (particularly the free publicity you can get from a blog post for instance), it's really too bad that these authors can't see (like musicians seem to, more and more) that sharing their books may be inevitable, but it's not such a catastrophe. more and more musicians are taking advantage of this to reach new audiences, and even some writers (see "the Pirate Coelho" for the most obvious example). Rowling, i would argue, is so successful that i am sure she is not losing any consequential income from copied ebooks, and if i were her i might see instead that having such a huge following is a very flattering thing.

in related news, i heard recently about a little experiment done by a comic book publisher (note that in france, comic books are closer to what i think in english you would call a graphic novel, they are usually slightly larger than A4 and have a hard cover and are read by adults and children depending on the comic). they decided to try an experiment to promote their next comic book : they sent a copy to 20 bloggers, and asked them to write a post about it. 18 of the 20 did so. the publisher did not do ANY other advertising. based only on these 18 blogs, that comic book got excellent sales. sadly, i have no head for numbers so i don't remember exactly but suffice it to say the publisher was very happy (and the author too, i presume).