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Old 12-03-2007, 05:32 PM   #61
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I'm afraid the Sony product will now die a slow death like their MP3 players. Now that the profit margins are gone with the Connect store, I expect it will be shuttered in less than a year and Sony will move onto the next great "high-margin" gadget (that is the Sony way).
Based on what, exactly? You say that the profit margins are gone on the Connect store, and yet Amazon has already admitted to losing money on many titles at the $9.95 price, so their profit margins must be gone, too. That must mean that the Kindle store, too, will be shuttered in less than a year, right? Doesn't Amazon also have a history of abandoning digital customers?

Personally, I hope they both do well. That way someone will eventually be able to put out a really good e-book device. Meanwhile, the Kindle really doesn't offer me anything I want over the Sony to make it worth an extra $100, so I seriously doubt I'll regret anything.
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:33 PM   #62
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I strongly suggest for anyone considering an ereader to buy the Kindle. I own both the Sony PRS-505 and the Kindle and really there is no comparison. The Amazon "service" makes the Kindle superior to the Sony Reader in many ways, hands down.

I'm afraid the Sony product will now die a slow death like their MP3 players. Now that the profit margins are gone with the Connect store, I expect it will be shuttered in less than a year and Sony will move onto the next great "high-margin" gadget (that is the Sony way).

Get the Kindle or regret it! It's a no-brainer really.
By that logic, the iLiad and Cybook should have cratered long since, and the e-Bookwise 1150 would certainly not be a hot topic of discussion around here.

If what you're looking for is a service then by all means, go for the Kindle.

If, on the other hand, what you're looking for is a reading device ... then I'd encourage you to weigh all the available devices on their individual advantages and drawbacks and decide which, if any, suits what you need/want to do.
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:54 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by jasonkchapman View Post
Based on what, exactly? You say that the profit margins are gone on the Connect store, and yet Amazon has already admitted to losing money on many titles at the $9.95 price, so their profit margins must be gone, too. That must mean that the Kindle store, too, will be shuttered in less than a year, right? Doesn't Amazon also have a history of abandoning digital customers?

Personally, I hope they both do well. That way someone will eventually be able to put out a really good e-book device. Meanwhile, the Kindle really doesn't offer me anything I want over the Sony to make it worth an extra $100, so I seriously doubt I'll regret anything.
What was Sony charging for e-books before the Kindle? And what are they charging now that they have some real competition? What I am seeing are huge price drops, in some cases 50% or more. Now they are probably making a buck or two, verses $10 for each ebook. Sony as an elite consumer electronics company like Apple lives off high margins. Do you know what the margin is on a $59.99 PS3 game? A little more than the 10% profit Amazon is comfortable with.

I guess what I'm saying is that as an elite consumer electronics company, Sony will focus on unique high-margin products, not commoditized, low-margin ones. I would expect Sony to slowly leave this market over the next year or two if the profit continues to get sucked out of the market. Amazon is showing that the ebook biz is mostly going to be a battle of services and software and high-volume, low-margin sales. Sony will lose that battle any day and knows it. They can't compete on software or services. Look at how weak the ebook connect store is to this day - or the PS3 store - or whatever they try to do. They just aren't any good at it. What they are good at is building high-quality electronic gadgetry with state of the art functionality.

Amazon is good with services and software. Amazon.com, like it or not, is probably the most successful ecommerce storefront in existence. Just like the Amazon.com web site, I think Amazon sees the Kindle as a platform for selling content and that is what they are really good at. They even subsidize the delivery costs on e-purchases, the same way they do with real products sold on amazon.com. Do you really think Sony would EVER consider something like that? Yes, they are a little weak on product design, but I think the software features and services offset that easily.

Honestly Amazon should have contracted Sony to design and build their ereader. Amazon + Sony might be able to do what only Apple can do today.

And I as well wish that they both do well, but unless Sony starts focusing on their store and the software of their reader, they are going to lose and lose badly. And this I believe based on hours and hours of using each company's products.

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Old 12-03-2007, 06:00 PM   #64
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Oh the irony! Someone with a Kindle saying you'll regret your purchase.

Do you really think you won't be forced to buy your books again in the near future, like the poor suckers who bought DRM'd books from Amazon before the Kindle? Justify your extra expense over the Sony however you like but don't expect us to agree. No comparison? Thanks, you gave me a belly-laugh today.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:04 PM   #65
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By that logic, the iLiad and Cybook should have cratered long since, and the e-Bookwise 1150 would certainly not be a hot topic of discussion around here.

If what you're looking for is a service then by all means, go for the Kindle.

If, on the other hand, what you're looking for is a reading device ... then I'd encourage you to weigh all the available devices on their individual advantages and drawbacks and decide which, if any, suits what you need/want to do.
Yeah, I agree. But I think you should try the Kindle before you consider anything else, for the same reason that I didn't know I couldn't live without a TiVo until I had one. The service makes the device. If you like TiVo over normal cable DVRs, or if you like the iPhone over the typical phone, trust me you will appreciate the value and ease-of-use offered in the Kindle's product/service bundle.

Last edited by sfernald; 12-03-2007 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:08 PM   #66
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Oh the irony! Someone with a Kindle saying you'll regret your purchase.

Do you really think you won't be forced to buy your books again in the near future, like the poor suckers who bought DRM'd books from Amazon before the Kindle? Justify your extra expense over the Sony however you like but don't expect us to agree. No comparison? Thanks, you gave me a belly-laugh today.
Ill buy the book with a smile,DRM or not.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:11 PM   #67
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Oh the irony! Someone with a Kindle saying you'll regret your purchase.

Do you really think you won't be forced to buy your books again in the near future, like the poor suckers who bought DRM'd books from Amazon before the Kindle? Justify your extra expense over the Sony however you like but don't expect us to agree. No comparison? Thanks, you gave me a belly-laugh today.
That's not really true. I can still read the books I bought from the Sony store on my sony reader, and I will continue to do so. It sucks that Sony has DRM so that I can't bring those books over to the Kindle. And it sucks that the Kindle has to have DRM too. Maybe if the world was perfect and no one pirated E-books, then we wouldn't need these things. And maybe the market will change as it seems to be with music and DRM will go away. But two factors make me not really worry all that much about DRM.

1) I really really want authors to get paid for their work, so I don't mind paying for their labor. They deserve it and I want to encourage great writers to continue to write and not change professions (to more profitable occupations) The hours of enjoyment I get from books easily makes it worth it to me, even if god-forbid I have to occasionally repurchase a novel or two because of dreaded DRM.

2) I spent so much time on #1 I just forgot #2. Oh well.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:12 PM   #68
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Get the Kindle or regret it! It's a no-brainer really.
When they will discount it at 50$ to clear the unsold inventory for the next generation I may get it like I did with the Sony. Until then I just do not see any reason. If I want eink I have the Sony, but I really love my 770 for text and the iTouch for pdf's. And I have wi-fi on both
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:15 PM   #69
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When they will discount it at 50$ to clear the unsold inventory for the next generation I may get it like I did with the Sony. Until then I just do not see any reason. If I want eink I have the Sony, but I really love my 770 for text and the iTouch for pdf's. And I have wi-fi on both
Well, I'm not saying the 505 isn't great. It is! Enjoy. I just don't think people will necessarily "get" the kindle experience until they adopt one for a couple days and try it for themselves.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:19 PM   #70
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Yeah, I agree. But I think you should try the Kindle before you consider anything else, for the same reason that I didn't know I couldn't live without a TiVo until I had one. The service makes the device. If you like TiVo over normal cable DVRs, or if you like the iPhone over the typical phone, trust me you will appreciate the value and ease-of-use offered in the Kindle's product/service bundle.
I have TIVO & love it but I won't buy a Kindle any time soon. What you seem to love is the service (which is DRMed books). If I had it I would still have to upload my unDRMed Mobipocket books (or convert my unDRMed .RTF to Mobipocket) to read. The dictionary is the only real plus for me.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:22 PM   #71
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I am not sure that Sony was relying on Connect "profit margins". I think the price may have gone down partly because Amazon leveraged many of the publishers to drop the price on their eBooks, to all eBook sellers. I hope they keep up the good work.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:58 PM   #72
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I am not sure that Sony was relying on Connect "profit margins". I think the price may have gone down partly because Amazon leveraged many of the publishers to drop the price on their eBooks, to all eBook sellers. I hope they keep up the good work.
actually there was an interview question to that effect. Apparently they (amazon) have the same model for ebooks as they do their store at large. They take a loss on popular ebooks and make it back on specialty ones. So you can find best sellers that are 9.99, significantly lower than what the publisher charges amazon. This is to "draw" you into their store. It works pretty well but you have to have a big selection to get the money back on books the publisher agrees to big discounts on.

Sony did not (does not) have the negotiation leverage nor the size (or gumption?) to make that happen. Amazon is vastly bigger than Sony's book entry. The scales are unimaginably in amazon's favor.

So the prices you see are amazon making it happen, not really a lowering of prices by the publisher.

-d
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:14 PM   #73
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The distraction factor

[EDIT: the inline image tag doesn't seem to be working, so I attached the images...]

I've been reading this thread with interest. I have owned a PRS-500 nearly since its release, and just upgraded to the 505 (after the Kindle announcement, so I knew what I was doing).

For me, book reading is an immersive experience. I don't want any device to distract me from the altered state I achieve in a book. Paper books themselves can distract, if they are not printed well, or are improperly sized for the content, etc.

While I loved the technical properties and the aesthetic of the PRS-500, I found a couple of things that made it a constant distraction. First was the contrast issue. It was just too hard to read unless I got the light just so. Of course, daylight was wonderful, but I don't usually read outdoors. (Nature being one of those unwanted distractions I mentioned.)

The second issue was the PRS-500's tendency to leave ghost images when the page was turned. To me this was incredibly distracting and annoying.

When I first got my hands on the PRS-505 I knew it was the solution for me. Contrast is now high enough that I can read in most places I could read a paper book. The 20% improvement figure does not give a fair representation of the magnitude of the difference between the two products. There is a threshold that was crossed, and that makes the 505 just work.

Ghosting is gone too. I have attached comparisons between the 500 and the 505, showing both the contrast and ghosting problem.

I do not have a Kindle, so I cannot do a side-by-side comparison. But, if the Kindle does not have the contrast and lack of ghosting of the 505, it is not for me.

I've also puzzled over the complaint on this thread about a replaceable battery. The battery lasts so long on the Sony (either one) that it is just not a factor in its use. I eventually get back to a power supply, and can charge it. Of course, with the Kindle, power is much more of an issue. But for the Sony, the battery is one of those things that just doesn't distract. (I don't worry about termites with my paper books either. )

To the poster who said they needed the ability to make an impulse buy (citing impulses received in the bathroom, of all places) I just have to state that this doesn't seem like a practical limit in general use. As I said before, when I read, I want to be immersed. Impulses have no place there. The Kindle, with its plethora of options (browse the bookstore, Wikipedia, etc.), itself becomes a distraction.

I don't even have to mention how distracting an undesirable page turn is to me. The Kindle loses on this front, if other reviews are true (I don't have one, I can't say for myself.)

To each his own, but for me, I'll stick with the Sony.
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:49 PM   #74
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1. I have the Sony 500 and would prefer to upgrade to the 505, when I can because I have enjoyed my experience with my 500.

2. The look is more appealing to me.

3. I am a SONY lover

4. I want to read books. Keyboards and making notes has no bearing for me.

5. I like the ability to convert any text into the Reader format and read it.

6. Of the 90,000 titles that Amazon has, how many do they have of the books I read? Not many I can tell you. I also seek out books that are no longer in print or hard to find. Believe it or not, you can find these titles on the internet in a text form. For example, Martin Pipin in the Apple Orchard.

7. I dont want to download a book on the spot when I have almost 200 loaded and ready to read.

8. When I decided to buy the Reader, I wanted to touch and see it first. $399 for the Kindle is a lot to pay and wait to see later to find you're not happy with it.

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Old 12-03-2007, 07:51 PM   #75
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I don't even have to mention how distracting an undesirable page turn is to me. The Kindle loses on this front, if other reviews are true (I don't have one, I can't say for myself.)
The page turn speed on the kindle is a little faster than the PRS-505 from my experience. I don't notice any ghosting on it - it flashes, but it flashes really fast. I use the Kindle on font #3. From my usage, it has the least annoying page turn. In fact it is completely tolerable and I don't have a problem with it. I thought the PRS-505 seemed fast compared to the PRS-500, but the Kindle is noticable faster still (it is practically instant) and in general the Kindle seems faster than the Sony Readers (when first going into a book, viewing menus, changing font size, etc).

I have compared the two side by side, and I would say the contrast is about the same. It is still debatable in my mind. Usually when I start to think that one is better than the other, it is usually a result of the angle of the light on the display.
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