Untranslatable Words

[zelda_pinwheel]

but this thread is called Untranslatable wordS ; who is next ?

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Bien sûr, et elle me trouble encore après 30 ans de marriage, mais elle me trouble encore lorsque la maladie l'approche, dans un contexte émotif différent. C'est ce que je tente d'expliquer, c'est un mot contextuel relatif à l'émotion qui perturbe un individu hors de son état normal.

Sorry I should translate a part of this. "troubled" is a contextual word meant to indicate that an emotion of whatever type has changed the "normal" state of one person.

[pshrynk]

This thread has become troubling...

[Taylor514ce]

I think we sometimes use "perturbed" in English in something close to the same sense as ZP is explaining.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

I think we sometimes use "perturbed" in English in something close to the same sense as ZP is explaining.

We have perturbé in French which is about the same as in English, but again perturbé is used in a negative sense like "this guy is nuts" "ce gars est perturbé" which to me feels like an irreversible state.

If as you say Zelda that all the meanings you found pertaining to "troublé" are negative, it only means that the people writing the definitions are opposed to a change of state.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

oh really ? i've never seen it used that way. in the dictionary, they only have negative definitions. judging by the ways i've seen it used, and the dictionary, i think it's used in a different way in french. it's a bit hard to explain though...

Mybe something was lost in translation of what I read. Are you saying that the french work for this can also be positive or good? If that is the case, then no, I don't think I've ever seen the word used in that way.

I seen it such as:

That person is troubled over the selection of which reader to select. (worried)

She has a troubled past. (has had problems, bad experiences, etc)

That girl is troubled. (not right in the head)

BOb

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Mybe something was lost in translation of what I read. Are you saying that the french work for this can also be positive or good? If that is the case, then no, I don't think I've ever seen the word used in that way.

I seen it such as:

That person is troubled over the selection of which reader to select. (worried)

She has a troubled past. (has had problems, bad experiences, etc)

That girl is troubled. (not right in the head)

BOb

yes ! exactly.

the meanings you have given in english are the ones i know as well, and they are not at all what i mean when i say "je suis troublée."

as for "perturbé" in french, for me it means rather crazy... so maybe another set of "faux frères" (false brothers : we use this to mean words in different languages which look alike so you expect them to have the same meaning, but they don't. like "troubled" and "troublé".) (hey, a bonus untranslateable word for you...)

ouf ! that was exhausting.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

the meanings you have given in english are the ones i know as well, and they are not at all what i mean when i say "je suis troublée."

Zelda, I am extremely impressed by your understanding of English. Are all people in France as fluent? Is this all from study or did you actually live in an English speaking location for many years to get so good at it.

What surprises me so much sometimes is non-native English speakers that are so fluent in written English but when speaking with them, or listening to them, they strugle. I always assume it is due to most if not all of their use and study of English to be with written word. Not that this is bad, I can't read/write any other language (unless you count the many computer languages that I am "fluent" in).

I never understood why my high school spanish teacher always emphasized pronunciation and being able to hear/speak the language as the first thing to learn before reading/writing it. Now I think I get it.

BOb

[Cthulhu]

Zelda:

The phrase you seek is "All shook Up." See Mr. Lewis (J.L.) for further reference material.

The spirit of the stairway is a term that I often use, sadly because I often experience the sensation. Esspree duh eskaliay sounds a bit too frou-frou. But regardless of the language, some folks do not get it.

I like "pervoi blin," which is a Russian phrase.....

[zelda_pinwheel]

oh great ancient one, that is actually not a bad approximation. although i think there is a bit less hip-gyration in the french version, it's just a tiny bit more subtle. thanks. but you have to explain "pervoi blin" (good luck !), it's the *other* thread where you don't give the definition.

bob, thanks, i would say my english is better than most french people's. i'm good at languages. and i like to read a lot

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Zelda, I am extremely impressed by your understanding of English. Are all people in France as fluent? Is this all from study or did you actually live in an English speaking location for many years to get so good at it.

What surprises me so much sometimes is non-native English speakers that are so fluent in written English but when speaking with them, or listening to them, they strugle. I always assume it is due to most if not all of their use and study of English to be with written word. Not that this is bad, I can't read/write any other language (unless you count the many computer languages that I am "fluent" in).

I never understood why my high school spanish teacher always emphasized pronunciation and being able to hear/speak the language as the first thing to learn before reading/writing it. Now I think I get it.

BOb

Sorry to bud in there. Most of it comes from thinking in the language you're using instead of translating everything bit by bit. It is not an instant thing. And I agree that you need to say the words in the music of the language learned, then you may start on subtleties. You have to work at it continually and reading is the best and most pleasant way to achieve this.

[Cthulhu]

Zelda: One needn't indulge in wild gyrations. For my part, I generally experience a frisson, then mutter some petition to the gods, alternately thanking them and cursing them for the experience.

Trouble(`) can be intellectual as well as physical.

Pervoi Blin translates as "first pancake." Blini are multiple pancakes, or maybe crepes is better, but that sullies the water by adding a tertiary language to our definition. Basically, any time something goes wrong on a first attempt, everyone thinks/says "pervoi blin."
It is part of a larger idiom,
"No one eats the first pancake"

This is because the pan is too hot, or too cold, or some drunk just totally messed up the batter.

The over-riding idea is that nothing is good on the first try, that anything worth doing takes time and practice. It's a nice mindset to have if one is facing constant trouble and strife.

At least, this is how my Russian friends explained the phrase to me, and how I've used it since, there & in the States.

Of course, why in the world would someone eat a pancake if there is the option of waffles?

Seriously.

[mjh215]

Can't you just put;

troublé(e) - see Taylor514ce

And Taylor you are including words that don't exist but should, but -YOU- don't mention Liff? Someone berate him in French for me.

-MJ

[Taylor514ce]

I am familiar with the Meaning of Liff, thanks for the reminder, though.

[zelda_pinwheel]

are you really going to make me and squid-bucket do all the heavy lifting in this thread ?

all right, this one probably *does* have some equivalent (if only colloquially, in which case i get two shots with one stone right ?) but i couldn't immediately think of one and i just used it, so here you are, go crazy :

petite nature litterally it means "small nature", it's used to describe someone who is faint of heart (ha, oops, i guess it actually does have a pretty good translation...) and cannot stomach gory movies, getting blood drawn, injections, spiders... you get the idea. perhaps you can think of some better translations.