Jobs speaks up about Flash

[rock]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Ars Technica weighs in on Job's letter and also has a poll. Apparently 52% (as of this moment) of those who responded believe Jobs makes valid points and is in his rights to block Flash on the iDevice platform. 22% believe he's in the wrong.

and 24% believe he is half right and half bogus.



But reading the comments, it seems to be blind Mac supporters. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[leebase]

For those who are unhappy with the lack of flash -- just wait for the android tablets to come out. I completely understand why LOTS of folks will find lack of flash a deal breaker. Lack of a webcam was the deal breaker for my mom buying an iPad.

Jobs has a vision of what he wants to accomplish, and that vision will not serve every market.

Lee

[rock]

Originally Posted by leebase

For those who are unhappy with the lack of flash -- just wait for the android tablets to come out. I completely understand why LOTS of folks will find lack of flash a deal breaker. Lack of a webcam was the deal breaker for my mom buying an iPad.

Jobs has a vision of what he wants to accomplish, and that vision will not serve every market.

Lee

I just calling his argument weak that is all.

I understand, but I think this is more of a discussion of Jobs arguments about flash and not a deal breaker thread really. Though your points are valid.

As I said I don't mind it, as there is a Netflix app now which is more what I wanted from my iPhone (I jumped to the droid recently as the iPhone was failing me as a Phone here in Philadelphia) but now that it is on the iPad I may go for it, but still too much money in my honest opinion at the moment. Especially since my netbook was 230 bucks cheaper and does more (I know it is not fair to compare, but Jobs did say it was a netbook killer in one interview I saw).

I think the thing that is bothering people about it, is that Jobs makes it sound like Adobe Flash is EVEL. (spelled wrong on purpose). When in the web development class even though were learning HTML, almost everyone prefered to use flash for some reason. Especially since Dreamweaver promotes it (no surprise there as it is made by Adobe).

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Trubu

... BTW I work in IT. I think Jobs' arguments are defensible, even if I don't agree 100% with all of them.

Oh, great..., this should make us all shut up....

You do realize that the vast majority of IT types HATE Apple? Should this have made me dump all my Apple products?

Jobs' arguments are largely false and all self-serving - it's all about obfuscating the fact that Apple wants to keep a walled igarden, so it can milk those inside it.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by Sonist

You do realize that the vast majority of IT types HATE Apple? Should this have made me dump all my Apple products?

Source of this statistic?

Jobs' arguments are largely false and all self-serving - it's all about obfuscating the fact that Apple wants to keep a walled igarden, so it can milk those inside it.

I look forward to your facts exposing falsehoods and supporting that these are self serving arguments. In fact, I think most of the technical industry would like to see them.

[dmaul1114]

No stats, but from my experience with IT people it's really a mixed bag on their feelings about Apple.

Some are fans because of the stability and the much lower level of viruses, spyware etc.

Others hate them because of their closed system as they're people that like to tinker with everything and thus prefer Linux etc.

[rock]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Oh, great..., this should make us all shut up....

You do realize that the vast majority of IT types HATE Apple? Should this have made me dump all my Apple products?

Jobs' arguments are largely false and all self-serving - it's all about obfuscating the fact that Apple wants to keep a walled igarden, so it can milk those inside it.

I will have to agree that most of IT does hate apple.

Just because the lack of software that can be run, and how Apple does not like it if you run MAC OS X without buying Apple's hardware. I know everyone here in my company (the IT area) hates Apple. I don't mind it, I just do not like the ridiculous pricing. We bought 6 iPads for our new branch, so I may have to go out and check them out lol. Still everyone hates it. Yeah almost every IT person I encountered hates it. In certificate programs, College courses, etc. They think the OS is great, they just hate the lack of good software in their minds.

I also agree with dmaul, a lot of power users do prefer linux over Mac, and even Windows, because of the tinkering aspect.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Source of this statistic?

LOL. Have you ever tried to bring a Mac into a large corporation? There is a reason why virtually all large companies run on Windows, and it's not only the more robust networking capabilities.

Originally Posted by scottjl

I look forward to your facts exposing falsehoods and supporting that these are self serving arguments. In fact, I think most of the technical industry would like to see them.

I don't have the time to indulge you, but try these:

Steve Jobs Is Lying About Flash

and

The Disingenuous Press Release of Steve Jobs

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by Sonist

LOL. Have you ever tried to bring a Mac into a large corporation? There is a reason why virtually all large companies run on Windows, and it's not only the more robust networking capabilities.

Actually yes. I've worked with Fortune 50 companies on down the line. You'll find plenty of cookie-cutter windows boxes among the masses, and many creative departments will be running Macs.

Windows, more robust networking capabilities? Than Unix?

An IT education should not come from "Dummies" books.

I don't have the time to indulge you, but try these:

Steve Jobs Is Lying About Flash

Ahh. Business Insider. Yes. The first source I turn to for solid technical information. Just as I stop at my local McDonalds when I need medical advice.

and

The Disingenuous Press Release of Steve Jobs

An obscure blogger's opinion. Again an excellent resource for sound technical advice.

I'm guessing you quickly Googled "steve jobs is lying about flash" and those were the first two hits.

Please, come back when you have solid facts, not opinions, to back up your arguments and you've thoroughly checked your resources.

[rock]

Originally Posted by Sonist

LOL. Have you ever tried to bring a Mac into a large corporation? There is a reason why virtually all large companies run on Windows, and it's not only the more robust networking capabilities.




I don't have the time to indulge you, but try these:

Steve Jobs Is Lying About Flash

and

The Disingenuous Press Release of Steve Jobs

Schools love them though. k-12 at least.

heck my first computer was the old Apple Mac with the black and green screen, with the 5.5 floppy disc (that was actually floppy!). Playing Where in the World is Carmen Sandiago, and Oregon Trail lol. Still schools like it, because it isn't so open, and easy to lock them down. Corporations hate them because of the expense, and also the lack of software and getting a Mac on the network.

I don't have first hand experience with MAC Server OS though so cannot comment, but we use Windows server, and we have one Macbook (marketing department) and we can not run 90% of our programs on it, or even join it to the network (without jumping through a lot of hoops and paying extra money).

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Actually yes. I've worked with Fortune 50 companies on down the line. You'll find plenty of cookie-cutter windows boxes among the masses, and many creative departments will be running Macs.

O.K.. My bad.

I was obviously wrong in relying on my experience and in thinking that virtually all large corporations in the world run Windows.

Originally Posted by scottjl

Ahh. Business Insider. Yes. The first source I turn to for solid technical information. Just as I stop at my local McDonalds when I need medical advice.

An obscure blogger's opinion. Again an excellent resource for sound technical advice.

Do you have any sensible response to the actual arguments advanced in the links I posted, or are you just going to engage in silly attacks against the sources?

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by Sonist

O.K.. My bad.

I was obviously wrong in relying on my experience and in thinking that virtually all large corporations in the world run Windows.

Well unless you've done some sort of statistically valid survey saying "virtually all large companies run on Windows" is just yet more statement without facts to back it up from you.

Do you have any sensible response to the actual arguments advanced in the links I posted, or are you just going to engage in silly attacks against the sources?

Have you actually read the two sources you quote? I took the time to read them. The BI article was torn to shreds by the commentators below the article.

As for the opinion on your obscure blog, so that's the best you can do? Shall I go publish something on blogger.com and quote it as a reputable source? He might want to invest in a spell checker, "intorduced" isn't a word last time I knew. I can see why he doesn't provide editorials for the New York Times. He also incorrectly states that h.264 is proprietary when it has been a VCEG standard since 2003. He doesn't do his research either.

Hint, providing links doesn't instantly give you a platform to stand on. Try getting some credible sources next time and taking the time to review what they said. Unless of course you prefer to go down with them.

[rock]

Originally Posted by scottjl

Ahh. Business Insider. Yes. The first source I turn to for solid technical information. Just as I stop at my local McDonalds when I need medical advice.

Dan Rayburn is an executive vice president at StreamingMedia.com and principal analyst at Frost & Sullivan.

That is who wrote that, so why is he less qualified? Bad comparison there, it makes you look like a blind supporter.

Steve Jobs did not present any facts but yet you believe him?

To say Adobe is closed source is the pot calling the kettle black. H.264 is just as closed.

He said flash kills the battery quicker. On just Macs? As I said on my netbook using Mac OS x it runs about the same amount of power no matter what I am doing, even watching a lot of Flash videos.

I didn't see many facts in Jobs statements, but yet you said you only go by facts. I am just saying you can't criticize someone else's opinion.


Also did you read the article? You said you did but I am thinking you didn't and you just read the comments (which I can't see here at work).

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by rock

Dan Rayburn is an executive vice president at StreamingMedia.com and principal analyst at Frost & Sullivan.

That is who wrote that, so why is he less qualified? Bad comparison there, it makes you look like a blind supporter.

There's a reason for that

Originally Posted by rock

Steve Jobs did not present any facts but yet you believe him?

If Steve Jobs went to scott's house, shat on his ice-cream and told him it was chocolate he'd believe that

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

There's a reason for that



If Steve Jobs went to scott's house, shat on his ice-cream and told him it was chocolate he'd believe that

Great personal attacks, really back up your facts there. Have you been taking lessons from wacko-Jacko?