Is this a proper expression?

VydorScope · 11-06-2012, 03:32 PM

So in a dialog between two characters the one says something like "Yeah, we have this bad problem" and the other guy says:

If that were only the case, I would be overjoyed.

Meaning "If that was the problem, things would be easy, but it is not."

My wife has not heard that expression before so I am wondering if I dreamed it or not.

MartinC · 11-07-2012, 01:43 AM

Sounds good to me. Says a bit about the character too - without knowing anything else about him/her, I would expect him to be rather older than average, perhaps an academic or a professional, male (for some reason - why is that?).

Pulpmeister · 11-07-2012, 02:20 AM

Elegant use of the subjunctive mood. Very correct, but likely to be used in speech only by a well-educated type.

rhadin · 11-07-2012, 02:34 AM

Yes, it is an accepted expression in some parts of the United States, particularly among older generations. Not noted as being used or recognized by millenials and younger.

morriss003 · 11-07-2012, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pulpmeister

Elegant use of the subjunctive mood. Very correct, but likely to be used in speech only by a well-educated type.

I agree with this comment.

HarryT · 11-07-2012, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

So in a dialog between two characters the one says something like "Yeah, we have this bad problem" and the other guy says:

If that were only the case, I would be overjoyed.

Meaning "If that was the problem, things would be easy, but it is not."

My wife has not heard that expression before so I am wondering if I dreamed it or not.

Absolutely correct. It's the subjunctive mood, which is used to express a hypothetical or wished-for situation. Here it's correct because the implication is "that's actually NOT the problem". Using "was" rather than "were" would be poor grammar. Of course, since this is dialogue, you may simply decide that "was" is OK, because almost nobody speaks using grammatically correct English. In a non-dialogue passage, though, it would just be plain wrong not to use the subjunctive.

VydorScope · 11-07-2012, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pulpmeister

Elegant use of the subjunctive mood. Very correct, but likely to be used in speech only by a well-educated type.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinC

Sounds good to me. Says a bit about the character too - without knowing anything else about him/her, I would expect him to be rather older than average, perhaps an academic or a professional, male (for some reason - why is that?).

Cool. Those both fit him pretty well.

He is not that much older but comes from an older more refined family. Oh, and he started and runs an university.

Dr. Drib · 11-07-2012, 01:00 PM

A proper "experssion"?

Would you like me to fix that one for you?

Don
(Moderator)

VydorScope · 11-07-2012, 01:40 PM

LOL oh I see expERSsion instead of expression in the subject. Y'all are funny.

I probably have a dozen+ typos in most threads, but every now and again you latch on to one and have fun.

Sure, Dr. Drib. Go for it.

Dr. Drib · 11-07-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

LOL oh I see expERSsion instead of expression in the subject. Y'all are funny.

I probably have a dozen+ typos in most threads, but every now and again you latch on to one and have fun.

Sure, Dr. Drib. Go for it.

You made my day!

Don
(Moderator)

rhadin · 11-08-2012, 04:55 AM

I didn't think the original question was addressing the grammar of the expression but rather whether it was an accepted speechism, something that a reader would recognize rather than balk at. I guess what threw me, since everyone else seems to think the question was a grammar question, was the use of "expression". Expression implies to me a saying, a quote, a regionalism, a colloquialism -- that is, not a question of grammar.

What made the rest of you see it as a grammar question?

HarryT · 11-08-2012, 05:15 AM

The grammar (the fact that it's a subjunctive) provides the explanation as to why the usage is a valid one.

Pulpmeister · 11-15-2012, 04:47 AM

I have in fact heard the subjunctive used correctly in speech. (It's rare though; only those well-educated in the more obscure corners of English Grammar use it.) The speaker in question was just such a well-educated person. The same speaker used the phrase "...ought we to do ...?", another rarely used form.

pdurrant · 11-15-2012, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

So in a dialog between two characters the one says something like "Yeah, we have this bad problem" and the other guy says:

If that were only the case, I would be overjoyed.

Meaning "If that was the problem, things would be easy, but it is not."

My wife has not heard that expression before so I am wondering if I dreamed it or not.

The 'only' seems a bit odd to my ear. I would go for

If that were the case, I would be overjoyed.

or

If only that were the case!

(where the joy is implied)

dgatwood · 11-22-2012, 06:59 PM

Agreed. The placement of "only" is wrong, and implies that somehow that is more than the case. As in, it is not only the case, but also the object inside of the case....

11-06-2012, 03:32 PM	#1
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	Is this a proper expression? So in a dialog between two characters the one says something like "Yeah, we have this bad problem" and the other guy says: If that were only the case, I would be overjoyed. Meaning "If that was the problem, things would be easy, but it is not." My wife has not heard that expression before so I am wondering if I dreamed it or not. Last edited by Dr. Drib; 11-07-2012 at 05:09 PM.

11-07-2012, 01:43 AM	#2
MartinC Hanger on Posts: 148 Karma: 1355233 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Dorset, UK Device: Kindle 3, Galaxy S, Sony PRS-505, Sony tablet	Sounds good to me. Says a bit about the character too - without knowing anything else about him/her, I would expect him to be rather older than average, perhaps an academic or a professional, male (for some reason - why is that?). Last edited by MartinC; 11-08-2012 at 01:30 AM. Reason: the joke went away

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11-07-2012, 02:20 AM	#3
Pulpmeister Wizard Posts: 2,502 Karma: 28893796 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Device: kindle	Elegant use of the subjunctive mood. Very correct, but likely to be used in speech only by a well-educated type.

11-07-2012, 02:34 AM	#4
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	Yes, it is an accepted expression in some parts of the United States, particularly among older generations. Not noted as being used or recognized by millenials and younger.

11-07-2012, 01:00 PM	#8
Dr. Drib Grand Sorcerer Posts: 44,737 Karma: 55645321 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peru Device: Kindle: Oasis 3, Voyage WiFi; Kobo: Libra 2, Aura One	A proper "experssion"? Would you like me to fix that one for you? Don (Moderator)

11-07-2012, 01:40 PM	#9
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	LOL oh I see expERSsion instead of expression in the subject. Y'all are funny. I probably have a dozen+ typos in most threads, but every now and again you latch on to one and have fun. Sure, Dr. Drib. Go for it.

11-08-2012, 04:55 AM	#11
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	I didn't think the original question was addressing the grammar of the expression but rather whether it was an accepted speechism, something that a reader would recognize rather than balk at. I guess what threw me, since everyone else seems to think the question was a grammar question, was the use of "expression". Expression implies to me a saying, a quote, a regionalism, a colloquialism -- that is, not a question of grammar. What made the rest of you see it as a grammar question?

11-08-2012, 05:15 AM	#12
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The grammar (the fact that it's a subjunctive) provides the explanation as to why the usage is a valid one.

11-15-2012, 04:47 AM	#13
Pulpmeister Wizard Posts: 2,502 Karma: 28893796 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Device: kindle	I have in fact heard the subjunctive used correctly in speech. (It's rare though; only those well-educated in the more obscure corners of English Grammar use it.) The speaker in question was just such a well-educated person. The same speaker used the phrase "...ought we to do ...?", another rarely used form.

11-22-2012, 06:59 PM	#15
dgatwood Curmudgeon Posts: 629 Karma: 1623086 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: iPad, iPhone, Nook Simple Touch	Agreed. The placement of "only" is wrong, and implies that somehow that is more than the case. As in, it is not only the case, but also the object inside of the case....

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