Unutterably Silly Is it unethical to be unethical?

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Pfft...
Or, to put it another way, at least the one guy has a chance of stepping off the track in time, whereas those on the train are helpless to protect themselves.

But presumably the guy on the track is under the same moral obligation - so, if he had some kind of remote control device to control the points he would be obligated to let the train run him down rather than switch the points? Now that would be a heroic thing to do, but could we say that he has an obligation to do it?

[GeoffC]

are we, each of us, programmed for survival at the expense of others ?

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

are we, each of us, programmed for survival at the expense of others ?

Absolutely, every meal you ever eat is a plateful of death to ensure your own survival.

[darknessangel]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

are we, each of us, programmed for survival at the expense of others ?

Yes. As soon as our confort zone is breached/constrained/destroyed the survival instict kicks in and sometimes stays after the event in question. But I think real progress is when we realize in those kind of situations that perhaps we can do better with the help of others in stead of "at the expense" of others.

GJMS

[GeoffC]

self preservation is a powerful thing that probably dictates most of what we do.

[Sparrow]

Broadly true I guess, but there are examples of individuals sacrificing their lives for the benefit of others. It's quite common among insects for example.

[GeoffC]

just stay away from my chocolate, that's all I ask ....

[Sparrow]

Fair trade or unfair trade?

I only steal fair trade choccie.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by v1k1ng1001

Actually I think this is one of the outstanding meta-ethical questions.

Why or how is one morally obligated to observe moral obligation in the first place?

Okay, I give.

Mods? Uh... would it be possible to remove the "silliness" tag from this thread?

So, to join in with the spirit, which I am apparently helpless to oppose:

The key is society. There is literally no one on these threads who can say that they would be here without society... we depend on it, and it depends on us.

I say ethics do not exist on the individual level... they exist on the societal level, and we apply them to ourselves depending on how we see ourselves in society.

Is the state of ethics, then, tied into the state of society? Does an ambiguity of ethics indicate a collapsing society? Or is it a temporary state, more indicative of a societal "deep breath," pausing to re-evaluate itself, and considering whether it needs to unravel the Twizzlers and re-tie them in new and interesting ways?

When people admit to having "their own set of ethics," are they in essence declaring themselves as apart from society (a specious statement, at best, unless you really intend to just wander naked into the woods and live off of nuts and berries)? Are they stating that society is bankrupt to them, and undeserving of their effort on its behalf?

If so: What did society do to deserve their brush-off?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Broadly true I guess, but there are examples of individuals sacrificing their lives for the benefit of others. It's quite common among insects for example.

It may be argued that what you observe in insects is not ethics, but instinct.

[GeoffC]

more to the point , what is the base-line for society ?

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

It may be argued that what you observe in insects is not ethics, but instinct.

And for humans too.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

more to the point , what is the base-line for society ?

The level at which society sustains itself.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

The level at which society sustains itself.

Is then "sustaining society" an unquestionable good, and if so, which "society" are we talking about - human society, western society, Judeo-Christian society, African society, current society, future society?

[GeoffC]

The society that lives, stays alive and flourishes ....