PRS-T1 inferior screen?

uboot · 11-09-2011, 04:49 AM

Hi!

When I compared the T1 side-by-side to the Kindle3 it seemed that the T1's screen background was slightly darker!

But both devices are said to have the same eInk Pearl screen...

So what do you say? Is it manufactoring tolerances causing a variation in screen contrast?

The new Kindle4 is said to have an inferior screen too, i.e. less contrast / darker, despite being an eInk Pearl device, see e.g. http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle?_...x2I1AI3Q0JX77Z

Maybe Sony chose the same cost reducing strategy than Amazon...

chrisridd · 11-09-2011, 05:01 AM

I find the T1's screen quite dark too.

Presumably the underlying e-ink screens have changed since the K3 came out, and the K4 and T1 are using the new ones.

kartu · 11-09-2011, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisridd

Presumably the underlying e-ink screens have changed since the K3 came out, and the K4 and T1 are using the new ones.

Nope, K4 has screen which is worse than K3, actually.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...er,3040-3.html

Quote:

We called up E Ink Corporation to ask if this was a batch-related issue, and was told that this is most likely due to Amazon choosing a particular grade of display panels. So, while the new Kindle comes at a lower price, the company is probably cutting its costs as well by using a slightly cheaper display.

Papi · 11-09-2011, 07:40 AM

You forgot to underline "this is most likely".
IMHO, it means :
A : they have no idea
B : there are different quality of Pearl screen, like for a lot of components, but eInk's tolerance is a bit too high, and people can actually see differences between 2 theorically identic screen.

A lot of people have also said they feel Kindle 4's screen is better than Kindle's 3. I have both and feel Kindle 4 is slightly better. Someone actually measured both screen, and found whites are almost identical, but blacks were better on Kindle 4 so it had a better contrast. Maybe with a different Kindle 3, and a different Kindle 4 he would observe a better screen on the Kindle 3. I had before a PRS 650, PRS 350 which had (to my eyes identical screen), and a PRS 950 which showed a grayer background. From all of this I conclude either EInk's tolerance on screen manufacturing is a bit too high, or maybe there are parameters proper to each device which can impact the rendering.

kartu · 11-09-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

have both and feel Kindle 4 is slightly better.

Article talks about the cheapest K4 model.
They:
1) noticed its inferior to previous models
2) called the manufacturer to figure, if amazon tried to save costs there
3) got confirmation that indeed amazon spared money on the screen

Papi · 11-09-2011, 08:22 AM

I have read the article before. They said "this is most likely [...]". If it was a person from eInk who knew what was going on, and really knew the details of the deal between Amazon and eInk, they wouldn't have used the words "most likely". So IMHO, this person from eInk don't know. And, as I said in my previous post, someone on this forum made measures and found out contrast on the Kindle 4 was better than Kindle 3. There is only one Kindle "4" out so far : the Kindle "Non Touch". I see also a difference between the Kindle 4 and the Kindle 3 in favor of Kindle 4, some also have both and see a better screen on the Kindle 3. Some people had 2 Kindle 3 and had a different quality in screens.

carpetmojo · 11-09-2011, 01:32 PM

Seems OK to me, no noticeable difference.

JayB · 11-10-2011, 04:27 AM

Doing a side by side with my 950 I think the screen on the T1 looks better. Lighter background and about the same darkness in text.

I'm not sure if its just the black bezel giving the illusion of the better contrast. I will say that the T1 in no way has a worse screen then my 950 its either the same or slightly better.

I am averaging 1 crash per day on the T1 where as the 950 never crashed in a whole year of daily usage.

talaivan · 11-10-2011, 10:28 AM

I've compared the 350, 950 and T1. The best screen with the most contrast is the T1, at least in my experience. As Papi says, the 950 is slightly darker, perhaps because it's larger. The 350 seems to have slightly less contrast than the T1, but it's scarcely noticeable. The T1 badly needs a firmware upgrade, as it is not as stable as it should be.

kartu · 11-10-2011, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papi

I have read the article before. They said "this is most likely [...]". If it was a person from eInk who knew what was going on, and really knew the details of the deal between Amazon and eInk, they wouldn't have used the words "most likely".

So if amazon buys "special grade" screens for its cheapest model (note that they weren't talking about all K4's), what kind of "special grade" could it be? Would someone expect it to be higher quality than on more expensive models?

eInk person could avoid saying anything in a definitive way to avoid rage from a major customer.

kartu · 11-10-2011, 10:56 AM

PS
Comparison photo by Theonna:

Kindle 4 on the left, T1 on the right

more images.

thebestjeter · 11-10-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartu

PS
Comparison photo by Theonna:

Kindle 4 on the left, T1 on the right

more images.

How do you know which is which?

kartu · 11-10-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebestjeter

How do you know which is which?

comment to the image

Rizla · 11-10-2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartu

PS
Comparison photo by Theonna:

Kindle 4 on the left, T1 on the right

more images.

Ouch. T1 > K4. Pwned!

Papi · 11-11-2011, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartu

So if amazon buys "special grade" screens for its cheapest model (note that they weren't talking about all K4's), what kind of "special grade" could it be? Would someone expect it to be higher quality than on more expensive models?

Well, my point is there is no "special grade" ! There's just a unique Pearl model, but (again that is only my guess) maybe the manufacturing process makes it hard or too expensive to have a homogeneous product. Or maybe there are different factories with slightly different processes. I don't believe this "special grade" story, and I explained why. tomhardware makes measures and finds out Kindle 3 screen is better than Kindle NT. Someone here makes measures and finds out the opposite. We don't talk about people's impression here, these are numbers. We have people saying they have 2 Kindle 3, and they are different. I had the whole PRS serie, and the 950 was grayer. This doesn't exclude the special grade theory, but makes it hard for me to believe.
Also, I would add that if a manufacturer as Sony for example paid more for a "special grade", they would want to advertise it !

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartu

eInk person could avoid saying anything in a definitive way to avoid rage from a major customer.

I don't believe that either, it's embarrassing enough that they suggested it ! I wonder why Amazon didn't answer to that, maybe it's not enough important or they didn't heard about it...or it's indeed true ! But, it would be also embarrassing for eInk to admit they can't deliver a product homogeneous enough for people to not see a difference !

View Poll Results: Doing a side-by-side comparison - what do you observe?
T1 screen background is definitely darker than Kindle 3	12	35.29%
T1 screen background is definitely darker than PRS-650	3	8.82%
T1 screen is absolutely identical to Kindle 3	11	32.35%
T1 screen is absolutely identical to PRS-650	11	32.35%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

11-09-2011, 04:49 AM	#1
uboot Evangelist Posts: 425 Karma: 75216 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: old europe Device: Kobo Mini, Tolino Epos 2	Inferior screen compared to Kindle3, PRS-650, etc.? Hi! When I compared the T1 side-by-side to the Kindle3 it seemed that the T1's screen background was slightly darker! But both devices are said to have the same eInk Pearl screen... So what do you say? Is it manufactoring tolerances causing a variation in screen contrast? The new Kindle4 is said to have an inferior screen too, i.e. less contrast / darker, despite being an eInk Pearl device, see e.g. http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle?_...x2I1AI3Q0JX77Z Maybe Sony chose the same cost reducing strategy than Amazon... Last edited by uboot; 11-09-2011 at 05:03 AM.

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11-09-2011, 05:01 AM	#2
chrisridd Guru Posts: 928 Karma: 2146660 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: London, UK Device: Kobo Aura, Kobo Aura ONE, Marvin 3	I find the T1's screen quite dark too. Presumably the underlying e-ink screens have changed since the K3 came out, and the K4 and T1 are using the new ones.

11-09-2011, 07:40 AM	#4
Papi Addict Posts: 311 Karma: 547600 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Paris Device: Kindle Keyboard, Kindle NT, PRS-650	You forgot to underline "this is most likely". IMHO, it means : A : they have no idea B : there are different quality of Pearl screen, like for a lot of components, but eInk's tolerance is a bit too high, and people can actually see differences between 2 theorically identic screen. A lot of people have also said they feel Kindle 4's screen is better than Kindle's 3. I have both and feel Kindle 4 is slightly better. Someone actually measured both screen, and found whites are almost identical, but blacks were better on Kindle 4 so it had a better contrast. Maybe with a different Kindle 3, and a different Kindle 4 he would observe a better screen on the Kindle 3. I had before a PRS 650, PRS 350 which had (to my eyes identical screen), and a PRS 950 which showed a grayer background. From all of this I conclude either EInk's tolerance on screen manufacturing is a bit too high, or maybe there are parameters proper to each device which can impact the rendering.

11-09-2011, 08:22 AM	#6
Papi Addict Posts: 311 Karma: 547600 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Paris Device: Kindle Keyboard, Kindle NT, PRS-650	I have read the article before. They said "this is most likely [...]". If it was a person from eInk who knew what was going on, and really knew the details of the deal between Amazon and eInk, they wouldn't have used the words "most likely". So IMHO, this person from eInk don't know. And, as I said in my previous post, someone on this forum made measures and found out contrast on the Kindle 4 was better than Kindle 3. There is only one Kindle "4" out so far : the Kindle "Non Touch". I see also a difference between the Kindle 4 and the Kindle 3 in favor of Kindle 4, some also have both and see a better screen on the Kindle 3. Some people had 2 Kindle 3 and had a different quality in screens.

11-09-2011, 01:32 PM	#7
carpetmojo Wizard Posts: 3,117 Karma: 9269999 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: UK Device: Sony- T3, PRS650, 350, T1/2/3, Paperwhite, Fire 8.9,Samsung Tab S 10.5	Seems OK to me, no noticeable difference.

11-10-2011, 04:27 AM	#8
JayB Enthusiast Posts: 38 Karma: 257172 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: PRS-950 PRS-300	Doing a side by side with my 950 I think the screen on the T1 looks better. Lighter background and about the same darkness in text. I'm not sure if its just the black bezel giving the illusion of the better contrast. I will say that the T1 in no way has a worse screen then my 950 its either the same or slightly better. I am averaging 1 crash per day on the T1 where as the 950 never crashed in a whole year of daily usage.

11-10-2011, 10:28 AM	#9
talaivan Groupie Posts: 178 Karma: 4710362 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Sony prs-505	I've compared the 350, 950 and T1. The best screen with the most contrast is the T1, at least in my experience. As Papi says, the 950 is slightly darker, perhaps because it's larger. The 350 seems to have slightly less contrast than the T1, but it's scarcely noticeable. The T1 badly needs a firmware upgrade, as it is not as stable as it should be.

11-10-2011, 10:56 AM	#11
kartu PRS+ author Posts: 1,637 Karma: 2446233 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Sony PRS-300, 505, 600, 650, 950	PS Comparison photo by Theonna: Kindle 4 on the left, T1 on the right more images.

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