best format for complete photo book in given quality and feature list / KDP

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I know, I know... do not make a PDF

It's not going to work on most Readers. PDF made for a letter size page on a 6" screen is a disaster.

And about 80%+ of the world uses A4 rather than Letter size, slightly narrower and longer and often still rubbish on a 7" screen. Nearly 14.25" diagonal without cropping.

PDFs are for 10" screens, if you are lucky.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

And about 80%+ of the world uses A4 rather than Letter size, slightly narrower and longer and often still rubbish on a 7" screen. Nearly 14.25" diagonal without cropping.

PDFs are for 10" screens, if you are lucky.

Did I miss a beat here? Why are we discussing PDFs?

Hitch

[Jellby]

Because I half-jokingly suggested PDF as a solution.

But it's being criticized with the usual straw-man argument. First, people assume PDF means "PDF designed for a letter or A4 page size", when it could be designed for anything from a post stamp to a hignway sign (or even more). Second, and most important here: if the point is to show a page full screen, what the h**k has to do what the physical page size of the PDF is? I'm just assuming the book is just pictures, no text to reflow, just pictures, full page/screen pictures.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Because I half-jokingly suggested PDF as a solution.

But it's being criticized with the usual straw-man argument. First, people assume PDF means "PDF designed for a letter or A4 page size", when it could be designed for anything from a post stamp to a hignway sign (or even more). Second, and most important here: if the point is to show a page full screen, what the h**k has to do what the physical page size of the PDF is? I'm just assuming the book is just pictures, no text to reflow, just pictures, full page/screen pictures.

Iam not a fan of emogi, but .

[Quoth]

Yes, but if a PDF is really designed for a 160 x 160 palm, or a 4.3" Sony Ericsson Xperia Android phone, it may look rubbish on a larger screen. It's also not the best container for simply images. A multipage TIFF does that better and eink ereaders can have CSS to sensibly rescale images. The result of attempting to display a PDF is model dependent and unpredictable. Though of course probably no ereader supports multipage TIFF which is arguably a better format for a scanner to OCR than PDF, which might really be TIF inside, as PDF is an envelope that at the highest level defines a physical page size. Then each page can have multiple layers of postscript Text and vectors and images.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Because I half-jokingly suggested PDF as a solution.

But it's being criticized with the usual straw-man argument. First, people assume PDF means "PDF designed for a letter or A4 page size", when it could be designed for anything from a post stamp to a hignway sign (or even more). Second, and most important here: if the point is to show a page full screen, what the h**k has to do what the physical page size of the PDF is? I'm just assuming the book is just pictures, no text to reflow, just pictures, full page/screen pictures.

Did you just asterisk the word Heck???? Really?

The whole PDF thing--I'm sorry. I don't give a flying s**t (now, that needs asterisks!) what size the "page" is made to be; it's not going to fit this device or that, or the next one. Now, I realize that this particular book is purportedly images, with no text, so...sure, it probably matters a crapload less.

But not if he wants to sell it on Amazon, iBooks, B&N, Kobo, etc. All of those require ebook formats, not PDF.

I read non-fiction stuff ALL the time. I need to, to keep up with my biz, tech, new hardware/software and all that. I'm forced to read many of these in PDF and I gotta say, no matter what the progenitor does, it's a miserable damned reading experience on most devices. I have a Boox; I have an iPad (5th Gen); I have a Fire 10"; I have all the other usual suspects, Oases, yadda and I have tablets of various sizes that are Droid.

It's just less than fun to try to read a PDF on any of them. It's all that constant tap-zoom, pan-scan read; pan-scan read; pan-scan read; page-flip. Tap-zoom, pan-scan read; pan-scan read; pan-scan read; page-flip, lather-rinse-repeat.

That's all I'm saying. For a book that is ONLY Images, then, that might be fine, particularly if...well, if the readers would be inclined to zoom for detail, anyway.

Sorry, didn't mean to whinge. Reading PDFs on devices is a bit of a hot-button item for me, even without my obvious business biases, because, as I mentioned, I read a LOT of them on tablets/phones/readers and it just sucks. And yes, if someone designed a PDF to be read on a smartphone, with larger text, that would be awesome sauce, but then, what happens when you move it over to a tablet and now the page is 1/3 the size of the available screen? No bueno, kiddos.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Because I half-jokingly suggested PDF as a solution.

But it's being criticized with the usual straw-man argument. First, people assume PDF means "PDF designed for a letter or A4 page size", when it could be designed for anything from a post stamp to a hignway sign (or even more). Second, and most important here: if the point is to show a page full screen, what the h**k has to do what the physical page size of the PDF is? I'm just assuming the book is just pictures, no text to reflow, just pictures, full page/screen pictures.

Design it to fit well on a 6" eInk screen and it's too small for an iPad. Design it to fit well on an iPad and you can forget a 6" Reader. There is no size for PDF that's going to work for everyone. That's why it doesn't work.

[j.p.s]

I thought I've read multiple times that amazon "print replica" books a made from PDF.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Design it to fit well on a 6" eInk screen and it's too small for an iPad. Design it to fit well on an iPad and you can forget a 6" Reader. There is no size for PDF that's going to work for everyone. That's why it doesn't work.

But nothing else available will do any better with a book that is nothing but full screen images.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

But nothing else available will do any better with a book that is nothing but full screen images.

But how do you make the PDF so the aspect is correct when you have different ratio screens? Two of the most popular being 16:9 and 4:3.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I thought I've read multiple times that amazon "print replica" books a made from PDF.

Yes, that's exactly right. And yes, he could do that, but he was very clear that he wants the widest-possible distribution, which rules out PR.

Originally Posted by j.p.s

But nothing else available will do any better with a book that is nothing but full screen images.

Well...that's a matter of opinion, for the various reasons stated, by me and some others throughout the thread. I don't personally feel that the rigidity of PDF is better, for digital reading on devices, than a reflowable ebook. BUT, yes, that's my opinion.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But how do you make the PDF so the aspect is correct when you have different ratio screens? Two of the most popular being 16:9 and 4:3.

And therein lies the rub for PDF. You just...there's no One Size To Rule Them All, because every bloody device is different. Whether it's the 3:4 aspect ratio of iPads or the 1:1.6, 1:1.7 for Kindles or, or or...

Hitch

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Yes, that's exactly right. And yes, he could do that, but he was very clear that he wants the widest-possible distribution, which rules out PR.

OK. Well Jelby did write half-joking.

Well...that's a matter of opinion, for the various reasons stated, by me and some others throughout the thread. I don't personally feel that the rigidity of PDF is better, for digital reading on devices, than a reflowable ebook. BUT, yes, that's my opinion.

I fail to see what reflowable brings to a book that is 100% images.

And therein lies the rub for PDF. You just...there's no One Size To Rule Them All, because every bloody device is different. Whether it's the 3:4 aspect ratio of iPads or the 1:1.6, 1:1.7 for Kindles or, or or...
Hitch

All the PDF readers on e-ink and general purpose computers that I am familiar with preserve aspect ratio with blank bars at top and bottom or on the sides. Even those with a fit to width option will either crop the top and bottom or have blank bars at top and bottom.

[phillipgessert]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I fail to see what reflowable brings to a book that is 100% images.

OP wants max compatibility.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

All the PDF readers on e-ink and general purpose computers that I am familiar with preserve aspect ratio with blank bars at top and bottom or on the sides. Even those with a fit to width option will either crop the top and bottom or have blank bars at top and bottom.

Okay, then, fine. You win, except, again, he cannot sell that at KDP, in PDF format, and he wants maximum distribution. He cannot have it both ways; he cannot have what is effectively print layout (Print Replica) AND maximum download-ability across the universe of Kindle devices. (And others, I might add; self-publishers cannot upload FXL eBooks to B&N, to this day.) It's one or the other, not both.

And again, as far as sliders, etc.--to me, that is really worthless when you have no choice but to pinch-zoom and pan-scan. To me, that's a torturous reading experience. It's fine for, say, 3-5 pages and you can tolerate it for up to 10, but after that, on densely typed content, it's...not agony, but it's beyond tedious, IMHO.

Hitch

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by Hitch

We HAVE mentioned that KDP doesn't support SVG for all readers, RIGHT?

Hitch

Yes we have...even hyperlinked your post...