Bezos: Why it won't matter if Fire Phone flops

[murg]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Here's a prediction it's almost certain I won't be around to know whether it will pan out: In fifty years, Proctor & Gamble will still be emphasizing detergent sales, and still be in the black. And Amazon will, if still around, have gone through at least one bankruptcy.

Thanks. I'm going to short Amazon stock now!

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by murg

Thanks. I'm going to short Amazon stock now!

I know you are joking, but I had, of course, no intent to be giving stock market advice. For a prediction concerning Amazon's long-term future to be actionable by securities purchasers -- let alone short-sellers -- you would have to know, with some precision, when ups and downs will take place. I don't know that, and doubt anyone else does.

Originally Posted by wizwor

When a company is suffering a short term problem, Buffett looks at cash or marketable securities to see whether it has the financial strength to ride it out.

That's his job, but it doesn't reflect the advice he gives people he cares about:

http://www.businessinsider.com/warre...0-index-2014-3

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

As many as there are iPhones I highly doubt those are only buyers at full retail price.

Right. Firephone was attempted to be sold at the same subsidized price as iPhones and got few buyers. Nobody was interested in a Firephone at that price so Amazon dropped the price greatly in hopes to hit a price low enough that people would be attracted.

YOU posit this bad news for Apple. The same buyers who are paying the price Amazon tried to sell it's phone for but couldn't. The same buyers who could ALREADY buy a cheaper phone if that's what they wanted to do...but they didn't. They paid the price for the iPhone.

Ergo....those companies losing money on the fire sale of Amazon isn't likely to be Apple but other companies who likewise were selling cheap phones. Really isn't rocket science.

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

If it wasn't for subsidized phones, there wouldn't be as many iPhones around. The same is true for high end phones from Samsung, HTC and the like.

Right. Samsung, HTC and others also make premium phones they sell for $199 even though the real price is much higher. Amazon thought they could join that party too. But alas, the phone is crap and they couldn't sell the phones at that price.

I doubt that many people who were going to pay $199 for the Samsung Galaxy S5 instead of the "free on Contract" Pantech cheap crap Android phone are going to instead go for the "free on Contract" Fire phone. No more than the Apple buyers. The Fire Phone will be sold to folks who WOULD have bought the cr@p free Android phone.

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

There is you not being open minded - a Mercedes does have a reason to be more expensive - it is a whole different class of vehicle. You are trying to say that the iPhone is like a Mercedes and a Fire phone merely qualifies as a Festiva or Fiesta? That is a pretty big hype for an iPhone. Did you ever see a subsidized Mercedes at the new car dealer that low income people can afford?

This word you use, I do not think you know what it means. And yes, the Firephone is a phone so unlikes, so poorly received by the public, that it can only be sold really cheaply. In that way, it is the Ford Festiva to Apple's Mercedez. Unloved except for people who can't afford better.

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

No that is not a stretch at all. However it is a very big mistake to think that those were the only ones interested.

I don't think anyone is interested. It's a phone with a losing concept from the get go. It's 3D interface is a flop. It isn't driving any sales. Taking a photo to find an item sold on Amazon. Not driving sales of the phone itself. Pretty good commercials of cute kids using the Firephone. Not driving sales. The phone was an absolute and utter flop.

We don't even know yet if being "free on contract" is going to be enough to sell this phone against Android phones and iPhones that can also be had free on contract. $450 unlocked...there are some really nice Android phones available at that price. After Christmas is over, and Amazon still has piles of these phones in warehouses....the price will drop lower still. Or maybe they'll be so embarrassed they'll just dump them in a landfill.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by leebase

We don't even know yet if being "free on contract" is going to be enough to sell this phone against Android phones and iPhones that can also be had free on contract. $450 unlocked...there are some really nice Android phones available at that price. After Christmas is over, and Amazon still has piles of these phones in warehouses....the price will drop lower still. Or maybe they'll be so embarrassed they'll just dump them in a landfill.

What exactly makes you think they have still piles of them in stock? Maybe, just maybe they already got rid of them during the $199 sale. Otherwise explain to me why it isn't in stock at the moment.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

What exactly makes you think they have still piles of them in stock? Maybe, just maybe they already got rid of them during the $199 sale. Otherwise explain to me why it isn't in stock at the moment.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/...d-fire-phones/

Amazon wrote off on their financials $170 million in unsold Fire phones. That means they considered them a total loss. Phones that were made, but unsold, and now Amazon is free to get anything for them as they've already written them off their books.

Ergo...they are starting by dropping the price by $200. Time will tell how much further they have to drop the price before just dumping them into a landfill.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by leebase

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/...d-fire-phones/

Amazon wrote off on their financials $170 million in unsold Fire phones. That means they considered them a total loss. Phones that were made, but unsold, and now Amazon is free to get anything for them as they've already written them off their books.

Ergo...they are starting by dropping the price by $200. Time will tell how much further they have to drop the price before just dumping them into a landfill.

Have you absolutely not been aware that they already dumped them at $199 unlocked still including the year of prime for cyber monday? They don't need to throw any away since they sold out of them. Then the price jumped up to $450 and is not in stock at the moment.

[leebase]

They sold out?

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by leebase

They sold out?

The 32gb version is not in stock right now. It was always in stock, especially during black friday weekend. It was wednesday or so that all of a sudden the $199 sale stopped and it went up to $450 and not in stock until dec 12 now. Probably only still ongoing production trickling in?

[leebase]

I see 32 and 64gig in stock when I goo to Amazon, along with a pretty terrible rating, over 2000 1 star reviews

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by leebase

I see 32 and 64gig in stock when I goo to Amazon, along with a pretty terrible rating, over 2000 1 star reviews

Those are the locked subsidized phones. The unlocked unsubsidized phone is out of stock.

Rating for the locked phone = 2.5 stars
Rating for the unlocked phone = 3.9 stars

So why do customers dislike the locked phone and love the unlocked phone?

As for me, I'm using the phone like an iPod touch. It'll never see a SIM card.

[booklover6]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Those are the locked subsidized phones. The unlocked unsubsidized phone is out of stock.

Rating for the locked phone = 2.5 stars
Rating for the unlocked phone = 3.9 stars

So why do customers dislike the locked phone and love the unlocked phone?

As for me, I'm using the phone like an iPod touch. It'll never see a SIM card.

More important to me than unlocked, is that it is no contract. I won't buy any phone with a contract, and a lot of people feel that way.

[Alohamora]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Those are the locked subsidized phones. The unlocked unsubsidized phone is out of stock.

Rating for the locked phone = 2.5 stars
Rating for the unlocked phone = 3.9 stars

So why do customers dislike the locked phone and love the unlocked phone?

As for me, I'm using the phone like an iPod touch. It'll never see a SIM card.

An awful lot of those 1 star reviews on the ATT phone are from Greenpeace spammers who have a beef with Amazon, not from actual owners of the phone.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Alohamora

An awful lot of those 1 star reviews on the ATT phone are from Greenpeace spammers who have a beef with Amazon, not from actual owners of the phone.

And a lot of them are from users of the phone who didn't like it.

--------------------------
Very disappointed. I really miss my iPhone 4. None of my favorite apps are available for the Fire phone. Didn't realize I couldn't download from Google Play... only from Amazon app store.
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I purchased mine after looking it over in the store. The price was only .99 with a 2 year contract which would accuracy bring the monthly total down quite a bit. I thought for that price if I didn't like it I would get another phone. Where do I start.
1. Apps open by themselves
2. Battery life not very long lived
3. Pop up ads are constant.
4. I felt as if I was being tracked.
5. In your open apps there is always a list of suggested purchases.
It's like your a test market.
Then the phone went crazy, my screen was locked and would not respond. It started relaying voice commands as if it had been reset to another mode.
The day I took it back to the store the flip function as well as the tilt stopped working.
--------------------------
I've owned many phones and some smart phones. I've owned all iphones pre-iphone5, and a galaxy s4. This amazon fire phone is the most frustrating phone I've ever used. I shouldn't have to go into anymore detail than that. If you like being frustrated, get this phone.
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I have been so unhappy with this phone. After contacting At&t several times, I decided to contact Amazon through the Mayday feature on the phone. Well, none of my problems were ever solved and I ended up having to return the device and get a iphone. If only Amazon would have been able to fix my problems it would have been a awesome phone!! I love Amazon Kindles and the phone if it only worked properly.
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This Fire Phone is not as good as advertised, it keeps on freezing up and shutting down. Don't t like it.
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I love Amazon and I love my kindle fire. This phone started out ok the first month, but as soon as I surpassed the return deadline, the phone started acting up. The screen freezes, swiping doesn't work, the phone will either power down or restart for no reason. Some calls never show up on the call log. Very, very disappointed. I paid 199 for this phone and saw that a month later Amazon was giving this away for 99 cents. Considering letting another carrier buy out my AT&T contract just to get rid of this POS.
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[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by leebase

And a lot of them are from users of the phone who didn't like it.

Locked phone = 2.5 stars

Unlocked phone = 3.9 stars

[tubemonkey]

Price drop again. 32GB unlocked phone is now $229.