Got my Woot PE, some impressions - Page 3

muranternet · 07-08-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicinc

How I get the market working. Beast 2.2 kernel installed on my Notion Ink adam from tablet roms. than Kenny procedure via Titan Backup, restore with Titan backup. Build.prop edited (do it via kernel busybox, yes rooted with z4root). all from this forum procedure. all works perfect on lcd side.
android commander (or droid explorer) borked my eink apps and or system somehow and can not use recovery procedure so only lcd screen working till somebody helps me with this. funny i have full root and adb but can not restore so stucked for the time being.

vicinc: nice. Is the NI Beast related to Bugless Beast? Can this be done from an emulator, or do you have throwaway Google account files that can be posted/mailed to make it work?

vicinc · 07-08-2011, 01:22 PM

Beast is the most stable kernel on NI. no it can not be done from emulator and I do not have a throw away account. this is why I still prefer to have a rom done properly with market.

Synergi · 07-08-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorenzoens

I laugh my ass off with these self-appointed geeks. You need to find some info by yourself instead of believing what ads tell you.

Pearl IS a Vizplex and it is even CHEAPER than the previous Vizplex generations. The better contrast you are talking about is a matter of better hw/sw integration, and it is NOT MUCh better, you're talking about a 15% better contrast.

I don't know about self appointed geeks, but having the PE next to my Kindle 3 there is a big difference. The background is especially noticeable on the PE, its much more gray which hurts the contrast. This screen reminds me more of the first Gen Sony screens.. So you have a eink screen not as good as the Kindle 3 and a LCD not as good as the Nook Color. All of those things are fine since I didn't buy it to be better then either of those devices, However the main thing I did buy it for, the writing pen to books, is good buy laggy. This hurts the overall experience for me greatly.

I still think it was worth 119.. I don't think it was worth the original retail price they charged for it, but thats just me.

kennyminot · 07-08-2011, 11:30 PM

My honest impression, after using the device for awhile, is that it grows on you. While it's not as flashy as most contemporary tablets, the dual screens make it a workhorse. When I'm in meetings with my dissertation group, I can have my draft open on the LCD screen side and take notes on the e-ink side. I can read e-ink books while easily checking references on the tablet. Also, the annotation features are awesome with the e-pub books. Finally, while the resistive screen might seem unresponsive, it's really the preferred choice for people who like to annotate documents.

When I think about it, the most disappointing thing is the buggy software. The device had a great deal more potential - for example, if they had included annotation features in landscape mode, then this would clearly be the best choice for academics.

Now, I don't know why you are comparing the Kindle (which is a single-purpose reading device) with the PE. If your main goal is just to read books, then I think the Kindle is a fine choice. But you'll need a tablet to do anything beyond just read (which, coincidentally, is the whole point of including the LCD screen).

muranternet · 07-09-2011, 01:30 AM

kennyminot, I'm willing to give it some time. I've applied some more build.prop tweaks to make it perform better. The reason I compare it to a Kindle is because that's the standard for eInk readers. Now, the screen is probably on par with the Kindle 2, but even so I don't like reading on it as much, probably due to a combination of the type characteristics (I've played with them a little with limited success) and the huge silver bezel. I've never liked silver bezels, as for me they draw attention away from the content display on whatever I'm using, whether it's an e-reader or a television.

Now, the other thing about needing a tablet to do more than read I disagree with. Tablets have become something of a craze with the iPad and now Android (at least from FroYo onward), but to me they're still second fiddle to any laptop or netbook. For writing, Windows/iOS/Linux have it all over Android, mostly because of available applications. Documents to Go is the closest thing to a workhorse word processor on Android, and it's still annoying: lack of type formatting shortcuts, some inconsistenciens in available keystrokes, and most of all big problems (or complete inability) to save in different formats. When I tried to send a document to the eInk side from Docs to Go, the best thing I could come up with was to do a PDF convert and open from library, and the results were not pretty. (I may try to hunt up a direct EPUB or filtered HTML utility, but that brings its own set of problems.)

Hand-annotating the PDF was also a pain. While annotating on a Kindle is also strange with the chiclet keyboard, at least I can read what I've written afterwards, and it won't get mysteriously lost when I turn a page.

For $120 though I think this is a good combination device if one doesn't already have a dedicated reader and a laptop, but certainly not at $200 and up. It may have been even better had enTourage done the right thing by developers (to address the buggy software and add much-needed features), but they didn't.

So yes, it's a decent device for people getting into e-readers and tablets at the same time. It just doesn't meet my needs out of the box, and it's not moddable enough to get there without a significant amount of pain. It might get there, though.

arcticmaniac · 07-09-2011, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyminot

My honest impression, after using the device for awhile, is that it grows on you. While it's not as flashy as most contemporary tablets, the dual screens make it a workhorse. When I'm in meetings with my dissertation group, I can have my draft open on the LCD screen side and take notes on the e-ink side. I can read e-ink books while easily checking references on the tablet. Also, the annotation features are awesome with the e-pub books. Finally, while the resistive screen might seem unresponsive, it's really the preferred choice for people who like to annotate documents.

When I think about it, the most disappointing thing is the buggy software. The device had a great deal more potential - for example, if they had included annotation features in landscape mode, then this would clearly be the best choice for academics.

Now, I don't know why you are comparing the Kindle (which is a single-purpose reading device) with the PE. If your main goal is just to read books, then I think the Kindle is a fine choice. But you'll need a tablet to do anything beyond just read (which, coincidentally, is the whole point of including the LCD screen).

agreed, this does grow on you. i was going to ditch it and sell it on flea bag bay but i'm going to make this relationship work......

figuring that woot had a massive sale (lately, they've been selling the same crap over and over again) and hopefully the xda developers and mobile read folks will come up with more functionality.
l like the part where the browser can send the web page into the e-ink side. this is a great feature if you ask me. i only wish that i could just use the browser on the eink side too rather than this 2 step process, but oh well.

pendragginp · 07-09-2011, 08:13 AM

Agree that the poor battery life is a big problem. This is the main reason I find myself not using my pe as much. I can't take it with me and know that I can use it at different times all through the day when I have some spare moments without having to shut it down completely each time I stop in order to save the battery. Otherwise I love it. I did get an inexpensive wacom pen which works well and fits right into the slot. Has anyone found a way to help the battery life problem?

ptsenter · 07-09-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muranternet

and the huge silver bezel. I've never liked silver bezels, as for me they draw attention away from the content display on whatever I'm using, whether it's an e-reader or a television.

Can't agree more, and reflection under the sun.
But Decal Girl skins, especially matte, help a lot. It's some more expense:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=132878

sarah11918 · 07-09-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muranternet

Now, the other thing about needing a tablet to do more than read I disagree with. ... So yes, it's a decent device for people getting into e-readers and tablets at the same time.

Not exactly the angle that most edge users are coming from. It's not that it's an e-reader and a tablet smushed together. You do *need* both pieces for it to be a true workhorse and not just a mediocre reader with a mediocre tablet attached: browsing the web and making handwritten notes on the e-ink side; sending web pages to the e-ink side converted as ePubs or PDFs, reading a book and (a) having your email or a twitter feed open or (b) looking something up in a web browser and not needing to send one to the background in order to focus on the other.

I don't find it very useful to compare it to either an e-reader or a tablet because it's that middle ground and ability to decently function as both where it shines. The both is key to this device's success, and that's why people who really wanted an all-purpose, integrated device are most happy with it.

My 10" EE replaced my laptop for 2 - 3 months. It was the only computer I had for that time. I managed quite well not because it was in any way as good as my macbook, or the MBA I replaced it with, but because it handled multiple needs so well.

So if you're really trying to cultivate a relationship with your edge, think of ways to take advantage of the dual screen, of two separate apps working together. To focus on just individual things the machine can do likely won't give you the same warm and fuzzies, because it probably won't do any of those things as well as something else can.

arcticmaniac · 07-09-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pendragginp

Agree that the poor battery life is a big problem. This is the main reason I find myself not using my pe as much. I can't take it with me and know that I can use it at different times all through the day when I have some spare moments without having to shut it down completely each time I stop in order to save the battery. Otherwise I love it. I did get an inexpensive wacom pen which works well and fits right into the slot. Has anyone found a way to help the battery life problem?

pendragginp, where did you get the wacom pen? I'm looking for a cheap substitue. I have plenty of styluses lying around but none of them work. is the wacom stylus special? i'm not too keen on spending $20-30 just for a stylus especially given that the pe was only $125.

kennyminot · 07-09-2011, 01:16 PM

Totally agreed with Sarah.

Also, if you don't mind reading on the tablet side, ezPDF Reader is better than any piece of similar software you can get for a Windows machine, including Adobe Acrobat. I completely agree that Android sucks for word processing, though. I carry around my T91MT when I want to do heavy-duty writing away from home.

muranternet · 07-09-2011, 03:31 PM

Well I'm still giving it a shot. Unfortunately, the ways I wanted to integrate the two screens are just not there, and are unlikely to get there without development, which is its own bag of hornets for previously mentioned reasons. Simply sending a browser page to eInk isn't even reliable due to the unstable default browser. A simple printer driver to eInk would solve most of those problems.

I do find it easier to use since modifying the build.prop file and installing a more Gingerbread-y onscreen keyboard.

I think the full EE may offer a better experience, if only due to the larger reading/scribing area. However, even used the price is prohibitive to rolling the dice with hibernation problems and battery life. I've also sworn off any Android device that doesn't provide ADB and an easy recovery mode, solely based on my experience with the PE.

sarah11918 · 07-09-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muranternet

I think the full EE may offer a better experience, if only due to the larger reading/scribing area.

I highly suspect this is the case, although the PE seems to have taken the 2.2 update a little better than the EE. If pocketability isn't your main concern, then it's EE all the way. Battery life is much better, too, and especially with a spare (since it's removable), power is really a non-issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muranternet

However, even used the price is prohibitive

I still can't believe how expensive they are, even used. There's just not that much supply, I think. I didn't mind overpaying for a brand new product. But I'd be hesitant to pay for an already end-of-life device from a defunct company. It's a shame, because even in their current states, the EEs really are quite good.

ptsenter · 07-09-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muranternet

I've also sworn off any Android device that doesn't provide ADB and an easy recovery mode, solely based on my experience with the PE.

I don't know about recovery - my guess they didn't survive long enough to come to it, but adb - no problems, I'm doing everything using adb: shell, installation of zips, moving files back and forth.

muranternet · 07-09-2011, 04:33 PM

AFAIK ADB and root had to be cracked in Dingo, and enTourage disabled it when ermine came out for no discernable reason aside from spite. I haven't played with it recently in ermine. Recovery is a much bigger problem though, since it affects everyone who wants to customize, not just root devs. The poor guy who gets stuck in a boot loop after making a typo modifying fstab is pretty hosed.

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07-08-2011, 01:22 PM	#32
vicinc Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 443 Join Date: May 2011 Location: UK Device: Pocket Edgex2(1unborked), Alex, Nook B&W, Nook Color, Nook STR	Beast is the most stable kernel on NI. no it can not be done from emulator and I do not have a throw away account. this is why I still prefer to have a rom done properly with market.

07-08-2011, 11:30 PM	#34
kennyminot Groupie Posts: 183 Karma: 90022 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Louisville, KY Device: HTC EVO View 4G, HTC Wildfire S, Asus T91MT	My honest impression, after using the device for awhile, is that it grows on you. While it's not as flashy as most contemporary tablets, the dual screens make it a workhorse. When I'm in meetings with my dissertation group, I can have my draft open on the LCD screen side and take notes on the e-ink side. I can read e-ink books while easily checking references on the tablet. Also, the annotation features are awesome with the e-pub books. Finally, while the resistive screen might seem unresponsive, it's really the preferred choice for people who like to annotate documents. When I think about it, the most disappointing thing is the buggy software. The device had a great deal more potential - for example, if they had included annotation features in landscape mode, then this would clearly be the best choice for academics. Now, I don't know why you are comparing the Kindle (which is a single-purpose reading device) with the PE. If your main goal is just to read books, then I think the Kindle is a fine choice. But you'll need a tablet to do anything beyond just read (which, coincidentally, is the whole point of including the LCD screen).

07-09-2011, 01:30 AM	#35
muranternet Connoisseur Posts: 75 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2011 Device: Kindle 3/Sony PRS-300/Nook Color running CM7/P eDGe	kennyminot, I'm willing to give it some time. I've applied some more build.prop tweaks to make it perform better. The reason I compare it to a Kindle is because that's the standard for eInk readers. Now, the screen is probably on par with the Kindle 2, but even so I don't like reading on it as much, probably due to a combination of the type characteristics (I've played with them a little with limited success) and the huge silver bezel. I've never liked silver bezels, as for me they draw attention away from the content display on whatever I'm using, whether it's an e-reader or a television. Now, the other thing about needing a tablet to do more than read I disagree with. Tablets have become something of a craze with the iPad and now Android (at least from FroYo onward), but to me they're still second fiddle to any laptop or netbook. For writing, Windows/iOS/Linux have it all over Android, mostly because of available applications. Documents to Go is the closest thing to a workhorse word processor on Android, and it's still annoying: lack of type formatting shortcuts, some inconsistenciens in available keystrokes, and most of all big problems (or complete inability) to save in different formats. When I tried to send a document to the eInk side from Docs to Go, the best thing I could come up with was to do a PDF convert and open from library, and the results were not pretty. (I may try to hunt up a direct EPUB or filtered HTML utility, but that brings its own set of problems.) Hand-annotating the PDF was also a pain. While annotating on a Kindle is also strange with the chiclet keyboard, at least I can read what I've written afterwards, and it won't get mysteriously lost when I turn a page. For $120 though I think this is a good combination device if one doesn't already have a dedicated reader and a laptop, but certainly not at $200 and up. It may have been even better had enTourage done the right thing by developers (to address the buggy software and add much-needed features), but they didn't. So yes, it's a decent device for people getting into e-readers and tablets at the same time. It just doesn't meet my needs out of the box, and it's not moddable enough to get there without a significant amount of pain. It might get there, though.

07-09-2011, 08:13 AM	#37
pendragginp Guru Posts: 985 Karma: 4567263 Join Date: May 2009 Location: The End Of The Earth Device: Several	Agree that the poor battery life is a big problem. This is the main reason I find myself not using my pe as much. I can't take it with me and know that I can use it at different times all through the day when I have some spare moments without having to shut it down completely each time I stop in order to save the battery. Otherwise I love it. I did get an inexpensive wacom pen which works well and fits right into the slot. Has anyone found a way to help the battery life problem?

07-09-2011, 01:16 PM	#41
kennyminot Groupie Posts: 183 Karma: 90022 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Louisville, KY Device: HTC EVO View 4G, HTC Wildfire S, Asus T91MT	Totally agreed with Sarah. Also, if you don't mind reading on the tablet side, ezPDF Reader is better than any piece of similar software you can get for a Windows machine, including Adobe Acrobat. I completely agree that Android sucks for word processing, though. I carry around my T91MT when I want to do heavy-duty writing away from home.

07-09-2011, 03:31 PM	#42
muranternet Connoisseur Posts: 75 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2011 Device: Kindle 3/Sony PRS-300/Nook Color running CM7/P eDGe	Well I'm still giving it a shot. Unfortunately, the ways I wanted to integrate the two screens are just not there, and are unlikely to get there without development, which is its own bag of hornets for previously mentioned reasons. Simply sending a browser page to eInk isn't even reliable due to the unstable default browser. A simple printer driver to eInk would solve most of those problems. I do find it easier to use since modifying the build.prop file and installing a more Gingerbread-y onscreen keyboard. I think the full EE may offer a better experience, if only due to the larger reading/scribing area. However, even used the price is prohibitive to rolling the dice with hibernation problems and battery life. I've also sworn off any Android device that doesn't provide ADB and an easy recovery mode, solely based on my experience with the PE.

07-09-2011, 04:33 PM	#45
muranternet Connoisseur Posts: 75 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2011 Device: Kindle 3/Sony PRS-300/Nook Color running CM7/P eDGe	AFAIK ADB and root had to be cracked in Dingo, and enTourage disabled it when ermine came out for no discernable reason aside from spite. I haven't played with it recently in ermine. Recovery is a much bigger problem though, since it affects everyone who wants to customize, not just root devs. The poor guy who gets stuck in a boot loop after making a typo modifying fstab is pretty hosed.