Are your personal docs disappearing? A cautionary tale.

sirbruce · 06-12-2009, 06:49 PM

From the Amazon boards:

Quote:

A cautionary tale:

my personal docs kept getting deleted from K2 because there is a 10 cent charge and the credit card that my default 'one click payment' tried to use was a card that was invalid and no longer in use. My docs would get sent to K2, sit a while until amazon tried to get paid the dime for each. When the $ wasn't forthcoming Amazon would expunge the files somehow from my Kindle. I registered my valid card and the personal docs remain om my kindle now.

Jerry

Sporadic · 06-12-2009, 06:57 PM

So, the guy tried to send documents to his Kindle wirelessly with an invalid credit card and Amazon deep 6'd his documents?

I don't get what the big deal is.

sirbruce · 06-12-2009, 07:24 PM

It's not a big deal; it's just "Hey, if your personal files are disappearing, you probably have a bum credit card, which is probably not the first thing you thought of checking."

emellaich · 06-13-2009, 12:07 AM

Well I think it is interesting and potentially a big deal. I have no beef with Amazon's ability to disallow document transfer or book purchase if you don't can't pay agreed to charges.

However, it is a bit spooky if Amazon can/will reach into your Kindle and delete documents on the Kindle.

First, let review a related issue: Many organizations have sought to control the content of the internet through the gatekeepers. They have looked for ISPs and web sites to censor and monitor user activity. Large web companies have consistently fought this. It may be possible to review every user post, but it would be costly and would interrupt the free flow of the internet.

Why do I bring this up? Well, we can pretend that Amazon has no intent to abuse this capability, and will have no intent to do so in the future. However, once the capability is known, it may become a target by others. Let's say I am a large publisher who thinks that some of my books have been pirated. I sue Amazon to look for pirated books and to delete those they find.

This scenario may bother you or it may not -- after all if you have no pirated books you are not at risk. However, it is just one scenario where outsiders may be trying to peek into your ebook reader and controlling what is on it. I am sure you can think of other scenarios that would concern you.

I'm not sure I want an outsider (Amazon) to have the ability to reach into my reader, to see what I have (or even how I am using my reader), and to either just report back or to actually delete/take action on my reader.

Kali Yuga · 06-13-2009, 12:21 AM

If you think that's weird, consider the fact that all of your Kindle notes and bookmarks get saved onto Amazon's servers... Go to http://kindle.amazon.com/ and log in....

doreenjoy · 06-13-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emellaich

I'm not sure I want an outsider (Amazon) to have the ability to reach into my reader, to see what I have (or even how I am using my reader), and to either just report back or to actually delete/take action on my reader.

I agree, it's no one's business what I have on my reader, particularly not a corporation.

yet another reason to turn off Whispernet.

HarryT · 06-13-2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

I agree, it's no one's business what I have on my reader, particularly not a corporation.

yet another reason to turn off Whispernet.

If you're going to turn of Whispernet, then the issue of Amazon deleting documents sent to you by Whispernet is of no concern to you.

jharker · 06-13-2009, 07:34 AM

This does raise an interesting question, though: could you send a document with a bum credit card, then turn off Whispernet as soon as it arrives, thus preventing Amazon from taking the document back?

Of course, I'm not suggesting that anyone actually DO this, it's just curious. I assume that if you turn Whispernet off, it STAYS off... right?

MsAstoria · 06-14-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jharker

This does raise an interesting question, though: could you send a document with a bum credit card, then turn off Whispernet as soon as it arrives, thus preventing Amazon from taking the document back?

Of course, I'm not suggesting that anyone actually DO this, it's just curious. I assume that if you turn Whispernet off, it STAYS off... right?

Technically that's true, but the next time you turn on the whispernet, Your Kindle syncs, so there goes your document!

HarryT · 06-15-2009, 03:07 AM

I strongly suspect that they are not "looking what's on your Kindle". It's more likely that each document sent by Whispernet is "tagged" with some ID code, and they are simply sending the Kindle as "delete document ID xxx" type command.

rhadin · 06-15-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

I agree, it's no one's business what I have on my reader, particularly not a corporation. yet another reason to turn off Whispernet.

Yet another reason not to buy a Kindle.

Read tomorrow's headlines today:

Umpteen Million Kindles Sold

Amazon sold umpteen million Kindles to the Chinese and Iranian governments for distribution to their citizens. When asked about the deal, Jeff Bezos said it was easy: "We simply agreed to let the Chinese and Iranian internal security agencies check what citizens were loading onto their Kindles. We believe this will be a whole new market for Amazon." Bezos did deny, however, rumors that Amazon is currently negotiating with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, saying that "Homeland Security wants too steep a discount" but refused to comment on rumors that sales are pending to Russia and North Korea.

JSWolf · 06-15-2009, 10:09 AM

And then there is this headline....

JK Rowling to release the Harry Potter Series Exclusively for the Kindle

Author JK Rowling has decided to release the Harry Potter series just for the Amazon Kindle line of readers. In a statement by Rowling, she said that since Amazon can now use Whispernet to find all of the illegal copies of my books loaded onto a Kindle, I can prosecute these offenders to the full extent of the law.

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06-12-2009, 06:57 PM	#2
Sporadic Banned Posts: 427 Karma: 2690 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kindle 1	So, the guy tried to send documents to his Kindle wirelessly with an invalid credit card and Amazon deep 6'd his documents? I don't get what the big deal is.

06-12-2009, 07:24 PM	#3
sirbruce Provocateur Posts: 1,859 Karma: 505847 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Columbus, OH Device: Kindle Touch, Kindle 2, Kindle DX, iPhone 3GS	It's not a big deal; it's just "Hey, if your personal files are disappearing, you probably have a bum credit card, which is probably not the first thing you thought of checking."

06-13-2009, 12:07 AM	#4
emellaich Wizard Posts: 1,101 Karma: 4388403 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Palm>Ebookman>IPaq>Axim>Cybook>Kndl2>IPAD>Kndl3SO>Voyager>Oasis	Well I think it is interesting and potentially a big deal. I have no beef with Amazon's ability to disallow document transfer or book purchase if you don't can't pay agreed to charges. However, it is a bit spooky if Amazon can/will reach into your Kindle and delete documents on the Kindle. First, let review a related issue: Many organizations have sought to control the content of the internet through the gatekeepers. They have looked for ISPs and web sites to censor and monitor user activity. Large web companies have consistently fought this. It may be possible to review every user post, but it would be costly and would interrupt the free flow of the internet. Why do I bring this up? Well, we can pretend that Amazon has no intent to abuse this capability, and will have no intent to do so in the future. However, once the capability is known, it may become a target by others. Let's say I am a large publisher who thinks that some of my books have been pirated. I sue Amazon to look for pirated books and to delete those they find. This scenario may bother you or it may not -- after all if you have no pirated books you are not at risk. However, it is just one scenario where outsiders may be trying to peek into your ebook reader and controlling what is on it. I am sure you can think of other scenarios that would concern you. I'm not sure I want an outsider (Amazon) to have the ability to reach into my reader, to see what I have (or even how I am using my reader), and to either just report back or to actually delete/take action on my reader.

06-13-2009, 12:21 AM	#5
Kali Yuga Professional Contrarian Posts: 2,045 Karma: 3289631 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie	If you think that's weird, consider the fact that all of your Kindle notes and bookmarks get saved onto Amazon's servers... Go to http://kindle.amazon.com/ and log in....

06-13-2009, 07:34 AM	#8
jharker Developer Posts: 345 Karma: 3473 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Device: iRex iLiad v1, Blackberry Tour, Kindle DX, iPad.	This does raise an interesting question, though: could you send a document with a bum credit card, then turn off Whispernet as soon as it arrives, thus preventing Amazon from taking the document back? Of course, I'm not suggesting that anyone actually DO this, it's just curious. I assume that if you turn Whispernet off, it STAYS off... right?

06-15-2009, 03:07 AM	#10
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I strongly suspect that they are not "looking what's on your Kindle". It's more likely that each document sent by Whispernet is "tagged" with some ID code, and they are simply sending the Kindle as "delete document ID xxx" type command.

06-15-2009, 10:09 AM	#12
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,891 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	And then there is this headline.... JK Rowling to release the Harry Potter Series Exclusively for the Kindle Author JK Rowling has decided to release the Harry Potter series just for the Amazon Kindle line of readers. In a statement by Rowling, she said that since Amazon can now use Whispernet to find all of the illegal copies of my books loaded onto a Kindle, I can prosecute these offenders to the full extent of the law.

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