Hebrew on Fire and Touch

osnova · 12-14-2011, 06:05 PM

Hebrew works on both! At least the Hebrew words that I have in my publications display perfectly now.

I don't think anybody mentioned this on MR yet.

tomsem · 12-15-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osnova

Hebrew works on both! At least the Hebrew words that I have in my publications display perfectly now.

I don't think anybody mentioned this on MR yet.

Thanks for this news!

I am seeing Arabic, Thai, and Indic glyphs as well on my KT. I don't know yet if these render with correct layout rules (I am just looking at a table with all Unicode in it), and don't have my K3 handy to compare, but it does look promising! I will be trying some experiments...

osnova · 12-15-2011, 03:41 AM

Keep me updated about your experiments.

tomsem · 12-20-2011, 01:06 AM

I've had a chance to try a few things. Arabic and Hebrew are supported, and the correct r2l order within each word is correct, but the word order is l2r (incorrect). I suspect the source files were incorrectly encoded however (I just used 'Send to Kindle' browser plugin to send a web article to Personal Documents service and it probably messes too much with the web page text formatting). I'll have to do it more carefully next time. It looked like the Arabic ligatures were the same as on the source web page, which is amazing and I assume more or less correct. Maybe they are using WebKit for rendering?

My Thai and Bengali samples also seemed to be okay as well. I don't know if the Thai line breaks are correct (Thai does not use space characters to delimit words) but again, if they're using WebKit, perhaps the rules are built in for that.

Of course there's no font selection in any of the non-Latin scripts but it looks like script support is significantly higher than before.

Hope they have fixed the dictionary format so that you can make dictionaries in all of them (I tried a Russian-English dictionary that someone posted here, but lookup still did not work, and it's compounded by the fact that you can no longer look up words 'manually' on the KT as you could before: you used to be able to select a word, hit space bar, and then choose a search option. There's no input method for non-Latin scripts, and not all Latin scripts can be input with the keyboard (basically west european only). But maybe they are tweaking dictionary format as well.

Wonder how much of this applies to K4?

osnova · 12-20-2011, 02:50 AM

Tomsem, thanks so much. How weird is that r2l for words work but not above word level?
I don't have K4 but presume that they would use basically the same software from Touch. I hope they would update with these new features downstream to K3.

I am interested in your comment about dictionaries. As far as I know Kindle Fire does not support dictionaries other than the default in-built ones (see my post). Do you know something else?

tomsem · 12-20-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osnova

Tomsem, thanks so much. How weird is that r2l for words work but not above word level?
I don't have K4 but presume that they would use basically the same software from Touch. I hope they would update with these new features downstream to K3.

I am interested in your comment about dictionaries. As far as I know Kindle Fire does not support dictionaries other than the default in-built ones (see my post). Do you know something else?

Actually I was only talking about Kindle Touch dictionaries, and have not tried playing with r2l scripts on the Kindle Fire yet. But you are right, they need to have facility to install 3rd party dictionaries on Kindle Fire, if not Kindle apps in general.

Alibaba32 · 12-23-2011, 03:13 PM

Tomsem and other Kindle fire owners can you help! has anyone managed to use a standalone foreign translation dictionary on the KFire?

I have tried the method below (as suggested by forum member Doitsu) on the K4PC App and it works just fine with My French to English translation dictionary, offering instant look-up.
The KFire to my knowledge runs the Kindle App too, so it may well work!

Method...
"The Kindle software versions for PCs and smartphones only support the default 7 monolingual dictionaries. (English US/UK, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese)
The only way to bypass this limitation is to change the ASIN number of the dictionary that you want to use instead.
(The ASIN number for the default French dictionary is B005F12G6U.)
If you want to use your French-English dictionary with K4PC, create a copy of your dictionary, add or change the ASIN to B005F12G6U and replace the default French dictionary in the My Kindle Content folder with your patched version.
IMHO, the easiest way to change the ASIN is to use the "https://dev.mobileread.com/dist/tompe/mobiperl/" Mobiperl command line tools with the Mobi2Mobi GUI. (The ASIN is eth type #113.)"

I Have been trying to decide between the KTouch and KFire, when available in Europe. I already Know the method works on the KTouch but If it works on the Kfire also? this would not only allow for my translation needs but it would give me the added benefits the fire offers.

Many thanks in advance...

Alibaba32

Happy Xmas

luqmaninbmore · 12-25-2011, 08:45 AM

For Arabic, are the letters connected or separated?

bchaplin · 12-25-2011, 04:02 PM

Interesting topic.
I am staying with my K3 for now, which will probably not get this feature, but I'm relieved that Amazon is finally introducing it for the newer models. Though I prefer e-ink to a screen for reading, one thing I can say about Apple products is that from the very first iPhone and iPad they supported many different alphabets flawlessly, and it's been disappointing that the Kindles did not. I'll be following closely to see what you learn. If anyone has photos of how the Arabic and/or Hebrew appear on your Kindle they'd be great to see.

tomsem · 12-26-2011, 10:38 PM

Mobi does not support right justification, so regardless of the glyph support, it will not display correctly. And even with plain text, the word order is messed up (it displays correctly when I load the text file into Pages).

I think we are going to have to wait a little longer at least for proper r2l support, i.e. for KF8.

On the other hand, Indic text looks like it is working (sample in Devanagari script).

Doitsu · 12-27-2011, 12:58 AM

BTW, jailbroken 3.x Kindles can display ePubs in Arabic and Hebrew and presumably other RTL languages with either Matan's special fbKindle build or Duokan Lite. The latter, however, still had problems with some valid ePubs, but the Chinese developers are apparently working on a revamped version that will address these issues.

osnova · 12-27-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomsem

And even with plain text, the word order is messed up (it displays correctly when I load the text file into Pages).

I think we are going to have to wait a little longer at least for proper r2l support, i.e. for KF8.

This is discouraging. I had only one-word Hebrew text in the dictionary (etymology) so it seemed like working. I am not that encouraged with the upcoming KF8 because I haven't seen any support for indexes, dictionaries. Is there one?

tomsem · 01-11-2012, 11:40 PM

Finally have KF8 tools, did a Hebrew test, and it works in Kindle Previewer (set to 'Kindle Fire')! Justification and word order with left to right text all works properly. I expect Arabic is okay also will try that soon (as well as trying my Hebrew test on an actual Fire). So when K4 and KT (and whatever other Kindles Amazon can update to support KF8) are updated, they should work as well. I don't think mobi ever supported right to left scripts so indeed, KF8 is a good place to start doing so.

Dictionary format is unchanged (still 'mobi 7'). That's okay, as long as they fix problems (e.g. Cyrillic was not working and still does not work on my KT AFAICT).

Vertical text layout, Ruby is explicitly not supported (for CJK scripts).

Doitsu · 01-12-2012, 02:49 AM

@tomsem
I tested the KF8 tools with a very simple Arabic test epub and the resulting file looks OK in the Kindle Fire Previewer.
If it looks the same on the actual device, this'll be good news for publishers interested in publishing books in Hebrew, Arabic and other RTL languages previously unsupported by the Kindle.

osnova · 01-12-2012, 10:23 PM

Doitsu, it looks just fine on the actual Kindle Fire at least to me who doesn't speak or read Arabic.

12-26-2011, 10:38 PM	#10
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,477 Karma: 26425959 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	Mobi does not support right justification, so regardless of the glyph support, it will not display correctly. And even with plain text, the word order is messed up (it displays correctly when I load the text file into Pages). I think we are going to have to wait a little longer at least for proper r2l support, i.e. for KF8. On the other hand, Indic text looks like it is working (sample in Devanagari script). Attached Thumbnails Last edited by tomsem; 12-26-2011 at 10:46 PM.

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12-14-2011, 06:05 PM	#1
osnova Kindler of the Flame Posts: 582 Karma: 646016 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: US of A Device: K DX,3,KT,KP,KF, KFHD; Nook C, PRS600, iPad, Xoom, N900, N810, Zaurus	Hebrew on Fire and Touch Hebrew works on both! At least the Hebrew words that I have in my publications display perfectly now. I don't think anybody mentioned this on MR yet.

12-15-2011, 03:41 AM	#3
osnova Kindler of the Flame Posts: 582 Karma: 646016 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: US of A Device: K DX,3,KT,KP,KF, KFHD; Nook C, PRS600, iPad, Xoom, N900, N810, Zaurus	Keep me updated about your experiments.

12-20-2011, 01:06 AM	#4
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,477 Karma: 26425959 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	I've had a chance to try a few things. Arabic and Hebrew are supported, and the correct r2l order within each word is correct, but the word order is l2r (incorrect). I suspect the source files were incorrectly encoded however (I just used 'Send to Kindle' browser plugin to send a web article to Personal Documents service and it probably messes too much with the web page text formatting). I'll have to do it more carefully next time. It looked like the Arabic ligatures were the same as on the source web page, which is amazing and I assume more or less correct. Maybe they are using WebKit for rendering? My Thai and Bengali samples also seemed to be okay as well. I don't know if the Thai line breaks are correct (Thai does not use space characters to delimit words) but again, if they're using WebKit, perhaps the rules are built in for that. Of course there's no font selection in any of the non-Latin scripts but it looks like script support is significantly higher than before. Hope they have fixed the dictionary format so that you can make dictionaries in all of them (I tried a Russian-English dictionary that someone posted here, but lookup still did not work, and it's compounded by the fact that you can no longer look up words 'manually' on the KT as you could before: you used to be able to select a word, hit space bar, and then choose a search option. There's no input method for non-Latin scripts, and not all Latin scripts can be input with the keyboard (basically west european only). But maybe they are tweaking dictionary format as well. Wonder how much of this applies to K4?

12-20-2011, 02:50 AM	#5
osnova Kindler of the Flame Posts: 582 Karma: 646016 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: US of A Device: K DX,3,KT,KP,KF, KFHD; Nook C, PRS600, iPad, Xoom, N900, N810, Zaurus	Tomsem, thanks so much. How weird is that r2l for words work but not above word level? I don't have K4 but presume that they would use basically the same software from Touch. I hope they would update with these new features downstream to K3. I am interested in your comment about dictionaries. As far as I know Kindle Fire does not support dictionaries other than the default in-built ones (see my post). Do you know something else?

12-23-2011, 03:13 PM	#7
Alibaba32 Member Posts: 23 Karma: 48 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Limousin, France but English Device: Kindle pc	Tomsem and other Kindle fire owners can you help! has anyone managed to use a standalone foreign translation dictionary on the KFire? I have tried the method below (as suggested by forum member Doitsu) on the K4PC App and it works just fine with My French to English translation dictionary, offering instant look-up. The KFire to my knowledge runs the Kindle App too, so it may well work! Method... "The Kindle software versions for PCs and smartphones only support the default 7 monolingual dictionaries. (English US/UK, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese) The only way to bypass this limitation is to change the ASIN number of the dictionary that you want to use instead. (The ASIN number for the default French dictionary is B005F12G6U.) If you want to use your French-English dictionary with K4PC, create a copy of your dictionary, add or change the ASIN to B005F12G6U and replace the default French dictionary in the My Kindle Content folder with your patched version. IMHO, the easiest way to change the ASIN is to use the "https://dev.mobileread.com/dist/tompe/mobiperl/" Mobiperl command line tools with the Mobi2Mobi GUI. (The ASIN is eth type #113.)" I Have been trying to decide between the KTouch and KFire, when available in Europe. I already Know the method works on the KTouch but If it works on the Kfire also? this would not only allow for my translation needs but it would give me the added benefits the fire offers. Many thanks in advance... Alibaba32 Happy Xmas

12-25-2011, 08:45 AM	#8
luqmaninbmore Da'i Posts: 1,144 Karma: 1217499 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baltimore Device: Toshiba Thrive, Kobo Touch, Kindle 1, Aluratek Libre, T-Mobile Comet	For Arabic, are the letters connected or separated?

12-25-2011, 04:02 PM	#9
bchaplin Enthusiast Posts: 30 Karma: 350010 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Boston, MA Device: iPhone, K3 (Kindle Keyboard)	Interesting topic. I am staying with my K3 for now, which will probably not get this feature, but I'm relieved that Amazon is finally introducing it for the newer models. Though I prefer e-ink to a screen for reading, one thing I can say about Apple products is that from the very first iPhone and iPad they supported many different alphabets flawlessly, and it's been disappointing that the Kindles did not. I'll be following closely to see what you learn. If anyone has photos of how the Arabic and/or Hebrew appear on your Kindle they'd be great to see.

12-27-2011, 12:58 AM	#11
Doitsu Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,584 Karma: 22735033 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle PW2	BTW, jailbroken 3.x Kindles can display ePubs in Arabic and Hebrew and presumably other RTL languages with either Matan's special fbKindle build or Duokan Lite. The latter, however, still had problems with some valid ePubs, but the Chinese developers are apparently working on a revamped version that will address these issues. Last edited by Doitsu; 12-27-2011 at 01:01 AM.

01-11-2012, 11:40 PM	#13
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,477 Karma: 26425959 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	Finally have KF8 tools, did a Hebrew test, and it works in Kindle Previewer (set to 'Kindle Fire')! Justification and word order with left to right text all works properly. I expect Arabic is okay also will try that soon (as well as trying my Hebrew test on an actual Fire). So when K4 and KT (and whatever other Kindles Amazon can update to support KF8) are updated, they should work as well. I don't think mobi ever supported right to left scripts so indeed, KF8 is a good place to start doing so. Dictionary format is unchanged (still 'mobi 7'). That's okay, as long as they fix problems (e.g. Cyrillic was not working and still does not work on my KT AFAICT). Vertical text layout, Ruby is explicitly not supported (for CJK scripts).

01-12-2012, 10:23 PM	#15
osnova Kindler of the Flame Posts: 582 Karma: 646016 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: US of A Device: K DX,3,KT,KP,KF, KFHD; Nook C, PRS600, iPad, Xoom, N900, N810, Zaurus	Doitsu, it looks just fine on the actual Kindle Fire at least to me who doesn't speak or read Arabic.

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