Palm Foleo - Will it be another step for e-books?

Bob Russell · 05-30-2007, 12:49 PM

The Palm Foleo is going to be announced today, maybe even as I write this. In fact, some details seem to have slipped out accidentally(?) in the Palm RSS feed already. The whole discussion will be shaped quite a bit by the rest of the details, but already it has caused me to consider e-book ramifications.

For those that haven't seen, the Foleo is rumored to run PalmOS on Linux, and has a size between a laptop and smartphone. It will communicate and sync with a smartphone, and allows email or document editng with a full keyboard and decent sized screen. Battery life around 5hrs.

Once we hear about a decent sized screen, we certainly thing about e-books. Will we be able to read comfortably on it, even outside? Is it good resolution? Will eReader or MobiPocket or other e-book reading software work on it?

But my interest is in another idea... synching your location in an e-book no matter what you read on. Imagine buying an eReader book and reading it on a larger screen. Then when you leave the house with just your Treo, you can continue reading, and you automatically continue where you left off, with no fiddling. Then you pick up your Foleo at home and continue before you fall asleep at night.

Sure, this could be done across many devices. It's really more of a software issue than hardware, but the Foleo gives a natural platform for it to be implemented. Let's hope that we see it, and then it catches on across other platforms.

NatCh · 05-30-2007, 01:11 PM

That ... is a most interesting notion, Bob ....

It seems to me that this Foleo is kind of a wireless 'dumb terminal' for a PDA/smartphone, so with the addition of a bit of code, it ought to be able to serve up eReader or Mobi or whatever other reading software on its "decent" sized screen.

Huh, I'm liking this idea more and more the longer I think about it. Maybe that Hawkins guy is still a genius.

Dalapin · 05-30-2007, 01:55 PM

Here is the Folio
http://www.palm.com/us/products/mobilecompanion/foleo/

Head on over to look at it.

My first impression is boring.

klark · 05-30-2007, 02:04 PM

if you could flip the screen just like a tablet and if it had a touchscreen it would be a pretty cool gadget. but the display doesnt flip and it also has no toucscreen.

i agree with dalapin. boring.

NatCh · 05-30-2007, 02:06 PM

I confess myself underwhelmed also. Unless I'm missing something.

Gnam · 05-30-2007, 02:09 PM

I've just come home only to find that Palm has finally made the Foleo announcement official. While reading about the Palm Foleo I had a quick thought about this being a good compromise between a Sony Reader/Irex and a PDA device. So, I raced over to start a thread over on Mobileread only to find that good old Bob was already on the ball!

I've been thinking about a Sony e-book reader but have been holding back for two reasons:

a) lack of backlight
b) lack of software

The Foleo could be a very interesting device! A small laptop but with a longer battery life and without noisy fans and air-vents? These are normally expensive!

The following hours, days are going to be exciting!!!

Bob Russell · 05-30-2007, 02:20 PM

No touchscreen?
Focused on email and web browsing... does it even handle ajax/flash/etc?
What about applications? Seems like PalmOS and internet apps through the browser at best.

Until there is a thriving set of developers and owners, the only real benefit I see is for two groups:
1) Those that are satisfied with their Treo functionality, but want a bigger screen and keyboard. For these people, they should buy one asap. They will be in heaven.
2) Those that just use their laptops for email and web browsing and document editing. They should also be in heaven. They are actually also in group 1, but may not know it. Docs to Go should probably be functional on this device. And hopefully the browser is more capable than anything we've seen on a smartphone before.

The sad thing is that except for the quality of DocsToGo, I think in the short run I'd rather just do the same thing on a UMPC.

I'm afraid this is such a niche, proprietary solution that unless it's viewed as a Treo accessory, I don't see it as a hit. You need to want to do Treo things on a big screen. Maybe in the future the PalmOS ecosystem will be so vibrant that it will be a proprietary platform worth adopting for all your computing needs, but I suspect not. Instant on is not worth losing Windows compatibility.

So, to summarize, I'd say on first impressions (which can be very dangerous, so I reserve the right to change my mind) stick with a UMPC or laptop unless:
* Killer apps appear that you can't get elsewhere
* Carriers only charge basic phone data fees so it saves big money for being connected (i.e. not the "attach the laptop to your phone for lots of extra $$" plans), or, most likely,
* You only want to use PalmOS apps, but want a big screen and keyboard

Interesting concept, and I love the size. But will it sell? About the same way we saw the thin client market succeed, I'm afraid. To repeat myself, it just sounds like too much of a niche and proprietary solution. Bummer. I hope I'm wrong!

Edit: Another thought... think of the tiny market. It may get a few more Treo purchases for novice business users who want email and web browsing, but not any "real" computer users. And most of the market will have to be from among the Treo users, already a limited market. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

Gnam · 05-30-2007, 02:31 PM

Foleo = Small, light and 'on' in an instant. That's something that normal laptops can't do and makes me understand that the Foleo does run an evolution of the beloved PalmOS.

I'm sure many people would love a small and truly portable laptop. UMPC or small-screen laptops are normally quite expensive and at least twice the price of the Foleo. I guess we are going to have to wait and learn more about the actual operating system and hardware specs.

I personally think this will be more of a success if it's viewed as more than a Treo accessory, especially in Europe where Treos are not as popular or mainsteam as in the USA. A slick mini-laptop that hooks up via any phone/smartphone (not just Treos) could do well among both the geeks, business types, students and even normal home-users.

Gnam · 05-30-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

No touchscreen?

No touchscreen? I haven't quite worked that out yet from the press blurb although it does appear to have Wifi!

Hmmm, there appears to be a mouse-pointer hidden among the keys!

paulkbiba · 05-30-2007, 03:11 PM

I'm not impressed. If I'm going to carry two machines then I'll carry my laptop and my phone. Since I'm not an email freak it really does nothing for me.

It's nice that it runs Linux, but there doesn't seem to be a Palm overlay, so no Palm applications will run. This means no Mobipocket or eReader or any of the other major ebook formats. I don't think I'll buy one.

Bob Russell · 05-30-2007, 03:21 PM

Here's one bit of good news from over at PalmAddicts..
"It runs with the Win Mob Treo and Palm OS treo and works fine and Palm wants it to work with ALL smartphones and also with RIM, Symbian and Apple."

That should increase the market, and all of a sudden it sounds much more interesting to me (if they really do make it sufficiently capable to work with Win Mob and Win Mob apps, and not just get the email synch stuff working).

paulkbiba · 05-30-2007, 03:36 PM

I doubt it, Bob. From watching the webcast it was pretty clear that they will be running a Linux OS and are hoping that a community of Linux developers will develop applications for it. I don't think that there is any question that the unit is not meant to run native Palm, Windows or Symbian applications.

imaredr · 05-30-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klark

if you could flip the screen just like a tablet and if it had a touchscreen it would be a pretty cool gadget. but the display doesnt flip and it also has no toucscreen.

I totally agree. I was really hoping for something that could be used as an ebook device. I can't see this working for even businessmen and students without being able to flip the screen back, click to portrait, and then use it to write notes. And hey, not everyone has a smart phone. Besides weren't smartphones suppose to negate the need for a laptop? Maybe this is just a way to see what people want before it goes live and they will surprise us. No they won't. I think I will cry

mogui · 05-30-2007, 09:09 PM

What seems to be missing from the web presentation (link above) is a set of specs. How large is it? Will it fit the pocket in my travel pants ike my Sony Reader does? How much RAM? Is there USB? How much like a laptop can I expect it to be? Will it really run my Palm apps?

If it runs Palm apps over Linux and can connect to some storage, it is cheap enough to be a nice toy even if I don't have a smartphone. But a mail-in rebate? Yech!

Steven Lyle Jordan · 05-30-2007, 10:28 PM

I can see a lot of potential here, especially for the more casual laptop user, as Bob mentioned. For myself, I could take something like that on vacation, when (and assuming) I won't be doing any heavy PC work, and just use it to keep in touch with my e-mails, do a little web browsing, and maybe read an e-book or two. I do that with my laptop and cellphone (used as a modem) now, but I see advantages to using a smaller, lighter, less energy-intensive, instant-on device instead.

$500 is a bit high to me, though, especially as you can get a refurbed laptop (like mine!) for that. But with a few 3rd party apps added, a bit more functionality, and say a $300 price, I'd consider it seriously.

05-30-2007, 12:49 PM	#1
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Palm Foleo - Will it be another step for e-books? The Palm Foleo is going to be announced today, maybe even as I write this. In fact, some details seem to have slipped out accidentally(?) in the Palm RSS feed already. The whole discussion will be shaped quite a bit by the rest of the details, but already it has caused me to consider e-book ramifications. For those that haven't seen, the Foleo is rumored to run PalmOS on Linux, and has a size between a laptop and smartphone. It will communicate and sync with a smartphone, and allows email or document editng with a full keyboard and decent sized screen. Battery life around 5hrs. Once we hear about a decent sized screen, we certainly thing about e-books. Will we be able to read comfortably on it, even outside? Is it good resolution? Will eReader or MobiPocket or other e-book reading software work on it? But my interest is in another idea... synching your location in an e-book no matter what you read on. Imagine buying an eReader book and reading it on a larger screen. Then when you leave the house with just your Treo, you can continue reading, and you automatically continue where you left off, with no fiddling. Then you pick up your Foleo at home and continue before you fall asleep at night. Sure, this could be done across many devices. It's really more of a software issue than hardware, but the Foleo gives a natural platform for it to be implemented. Let's hope that we see it, and then it catches on across other platforms.

05-30-2007, 01:55 PM	#3
Dalapin Sonywbie Posts: 10 Karma: 47 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Saskatoon Device: PRS-500 & T3	It is here Here is the Folio http://www.palm.com/us/products/mobilecompanion/foleo/ Head on over to look at it. My first impression is boring.

05-30-2007, 02:09 PM	#6
Gnam Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Italy Device: Dell Axim X30 & Palm TE	I've just come home only to find that Palm has finally made the Foleo announcement official. While reading about the Palm Foleo I had a quick thought about this being a good compromise between a Sony Reader/Irex and a PDA device. So, I raced over to start a thread over on Mobileread only to find that good old Bob was already on the ball! I've been thinking about a Sony e-book reader but have been holding back for two reasons: a) lack of backlight b) lack of software The Foleo could be a very interesting device! A small laptop but with a longer battery life and without noisy fans and air-vents? These are normally expensive! The following hours, days are going to be exciting!!! Last edited by Gnam; 05-30-2007 at 02:11 PM. Reason: I'm a perfectionist!

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05-30-2007, 01:11 PM	#2
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	That ... is a most interesting notion, Bob .... It seems to me that this Foleo is kind of a wireless 'dumb terminal' for a PDA/smartphone, so with the addition of a bit of code, it ought to be able to serve up eReader or Mobi or whatever other reading software on its "decent" sized screen. Huh, I'm liking this idea more and more the longer I think about it. Maybe that Hawkins guy is still a genius.

05-30-2007, 02:04 PM	#4
klark Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2007	if you could flip the screen just like a tablet and if it had a touchscreen it would be a pretty cool gadget. but the display doesnt flip and it also has no toucscreen. i agree with dalapin. boring.

05-30-2007, 02:06 PM	#5
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	I confess myself underwhelmed also. Unless I'm missing something.

05-30-2007, 02:20 PM	#7
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	No touchscreen? Focused on email and web browsing... does it even handle ajax/flash/etc? What about applications? Seems like PalmOS and internet apps through the browser at best. Until there is a thriving set of developers and owners, the only real benefit I see is for two groups: 1) Those that are satisfied with their Treo functionality, but want a bigger screen and keyboard. For these people, they should buy one asap. They will be in heaven. 2) Those that just use their laptops for email and web browsing and document editing. They should also be in heaven. They are actually also in group 1, but may not know it. Docs to Go should probably be functional on this device. And hopefully the browser is more capable than anything we've seen on a smartphone before. The sad thing is that except for the quality of DocsToGo, I think in the short run I'd rather just do the same thing on a UMPC. I'm afraid this is such a niche, proprietary solution that unless it's viewed as a Treo accessory, I don't see it as a hit. You need to want to do Treo things on a big screen. Maybe in the future the PalmOS ecosystem will be so vibrant that it will be a proprietary platform worth adopting for all your computing needs, but I suspect not. Instant on is not worth losing Windows compatibility. So, to summarize, I'd say on first impressions (which can be very dangerous, so I reserve the right to change my mind) stick with a UMPC or laptop unless: * Killer apps appear that you can't get elsewhere * Carriers only charge basic phone data fees so it saves big money for being connected (i.e. not the "attach the laptop to your phone for lots of extra $$" plans), or, most likely, * You only want to use PalmOS apps, but want a big screen and keyboard Interesting concept, and I love the size. But will it sell? About the same way we saw the thin client market succeed, I'm afraid. To repeat myself, it just sounds like too much of a niche and proprietary solution. Bummer. I hope I'm wrong! Edit: Another thought... think of the tiny market. It may get a few more Treo purchases for novice business users who want email and web browsing, but not any "real" computer users. And most of the market will have to be from among the Treo users, already a limited market. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

05-30-2007, 02:31 PM	#8
Gnam Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Italy Device: Dell Axim X30 & Palm TE	Foleo = Small, light and 'on' in an instant. That's something that normal laptops can't do and makes me understand that the Foleo does run an evolution of the beloved PalmOS. I'm sure many people would love a small and truly portable laptop. UMPC or small-screen laptops are normally quite expensive and at least twice the price of the Foleo. I guess we are going to have to wait and learn more about the actual operating system and hardware specs. I personally think this will be more of a success if it's viewed as more than a Treo accessory, especially in Europe where Treos are not as popular or mainsteam as in the USA. A slick mini-laptop that hooks up via any phone/smartphone (not just Treos) could do well among both the geeks, business types, students and even normal home-users.

05-30-2007, 03:11 PM	#10
paulkbiba Connoisseur Posts: 84 Karma: 45 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: United States Device: Nokia e61i, iPhone	I'm not impressed. If I'm going to carry two machines then I'll carry my laptop and my phone. Since I'm not an email freak it really does nothing for me. It's nice that it runs Linux, but there doesn't seem to be a Palm overlay, so no Palm applications will run. This means no Mobipocket or eReader or any of the other major ebook formats. I don't think I'll buy one.

05-30-2007, 03:21 PM	#11
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Here's one bit of good news from over at PalmAddicts.. "It runs with the Win Mob Treo and Palm OS treo and works fine and Palm wants it to work with ALL smartphones and also with RIM, Symbian and Apple." That should increase the market, and all of a sudden it sounds much more interesting to me (if they really do make it sufficiently capable to work with Win Mob and Win Mob apps, and not just get the email synch stuff working).

05-30-2007, 03:36 PM	#12
paulkbiba Connoisseur Posts: 84 Karma: 45 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: United States Device: Nokia e61i, iPhone	I doubt it, Bob. From watching the webcast it was pretty clear that they will be running a Linux OS and are hoping that a community of Linux developers will develop applications for it. I don't think that there is any question that the unit is not meant to run native Palm, Windows or Symbian applications.

05-30-2007, 09:09 PM	#14
mogui eNigma Posts: 503 Karma: 1335 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Philippines Device: HTC G1 Android FBReader	What seems to be missing from the web presentation (link above) is a set of specs. How large is it? Will it fit the pocket in my travel pants ike my Sony Reader does? How much RAM? Is there USB? How much like a laptop can I expect it to be? Will it really run my Palm apps? If it runs Palm apps over Linux and can connect to some storage, it is cheap enough to be a nice toy even if I don't have a smartphone. But a mail-in rebate? Yech!

05-30-2007, 10:28 PM	#15
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	I can see a lot of potential here, especially for the more casual laptop user, as Bob mentioned. For myself, I could take something like that on vacation, when (and assuming) I won't be doing any heavy PC work, and just use it to keep in touch with my e-mails, do a little web browsing, and maybe read an e-book or two. I do that with my laptop and cellphone (used as a modem) now, but I see advantages to using a smaller, lighter, less energy-intensive, instant-on device instead. $500 is a bit high to me, though, especially as you can get a refurbed laptop (like mine!) for that. But with a few 3rd party apps added, a bit more functionality, and say a $300 price, I'd consider it seriously.

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